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New Nismo GTR calipers ?

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#1
Warren-RB

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This is a re-post from GTR Life

https://www.gtrlife....o-gtr-calipers/

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

We are on top of this brand new CCB set up for Nismo 2020+.

 

Front carbon ceramic rotor: 410x38mm

Rear carbon ceramic rotor: 390x32mm

 

The calipers are 6/4 pot, larger and different from the standard ones, but the front caliper has a close top, and the hardware are rather complicated so not that ideal for track applications as the calipers must be detached from spindle for pad inspection and replacement.

 

We have those caliper pistons configured already, upgraded components are available for track enthusiasts.

 

Front caliper:

nismo-front1.PNG

 

Rear caliper:

nismo-rear1.PNG

I haven't seen the brake pads yet but it looks like the front brake pad is a hanging style same as Mustang Shelby GT500 which has an adhesive in the backing plate to prevent it from moving...

 


Edited by Warren-RB, 19 May 2020 - 10:11 AM.

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#2
Warren-RB

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Why Carbon Ceramic Brakes?

  • Carbon Ceramic Brake (CCB) adds a special value onto your car.
  • It can withstand much higher braking temperature than the conventional iron.
  • CCB provides a more direct brake feeling.
  • It suffers far less from 'fading' or the reduction in braking power.
  • Substantial weight saving over iron brakes (40-50%).
  • Last a lot longer than iron brakes.
  • Literally no brake dust.
  • Weight savings of up to 50+% compared to iron brakes.
  • Improved NVH (less Noise, Vibration and Harshness).
  • Improved performance (in both wet and dry conditions).
  • Reduced brake wear – giving increased life.
  • Corrosion free.
  • Outstanding performance, even from cold.

Above are the collection of advantage over the conventional iron brake resulting from my years of research and development on CCM rotors. Statement of benefit and comparison between the two material can therefore be objective, as prior to CCM I had decades of experience in cast iron metallurgy so our opinion is not subjective like other brake suppliers who only makes iron brakes.

Brake pad development for CCM and disc refurbishment service (expect to release in summer) are part of our complete carbon ceramic brake program.


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#3
Warren-RB

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See this amazing weight reduction on Mustang GT500 (2020+) rotors - Converting from iron to CCB.

 

Front: 420x40mm

 

front_rotor_wt_bc2bf371f40b6764f27e9dc0c

 

front_ccm1_a38ff64ebe9882b401689a3d9c4f2

front_ccm_2bf84ec5a1d7e37dbde4693df5884c

 

Rear: 370x30mm

 

rear_rotor_wt_e55b15aa3438cd7d3774528742

 

rear_ccm_759c7874676ebdc79bd86f885edd873

 

This GT500 front rotor (420x40) is the largest and heaviest (43 lbs) one we ever handled, so is the front CCM rotor which is the largest and heaviest one (19 lbs) we ever built for any motorsports car in history.

 

Both are holding the record in the size and weight in the brake industry.


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#4
shawnhayes

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So, Warren,

 

Loved my Racing Brake setup.

 

HOWEVER, on my M5, larger, heavier car than the GT-R, I have a "sealed" (unmovable bridge) caliper like the Nismo caliper above.

 

My STOCK pads last twice as long at the same track as my "track" pads did on the GT-R.  Also with no uneven wear.

 

I'm convinced its the brake ducting.  Convinced.  The M5 comes with that from the factory.

 

But, the BMW "sealed" caliper is held on by NUTS onto STUDS screwed into the steering knuckle.  Makes the Nissan caliper attachment look like it was imagined up by people who had never taken the caliper off and on in a dark garage between sessions at the track.

 

Comments on why the Nissan new caliper is "sealed" (unmovable bridge) without easy access to pads vs. the Spec-V GT-R which also had a special caliper that did not have an unmovable bridge?

 

Shawn


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#5
Warren-RB

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Good comment. Brembo OE calipers are a big mix-match pairing up (from model to model, front to rear) very inconsistent and no pattern to trace nor reason to observe as to why.

 

As to the brake durability the reason why your M5 brake is holding much better than GTR is probably due to the rotor and pad sizes; as M5 are substantially larger than GTR.

 

M5 Front carbon version is 410x38, Iron version is 400x38 vs. GTR 390x32.6 (earlier model: 380x34mm)

pad-compare-GTR-M5.PNG

 

It appears the new Nismo carbon brake has corrected the under-brake issue with larger rotor and pad, but looks like the non-CCB brake remains the same as before.

 

 


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#6
7racer

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why did they switch design?  is that a stiffer caliper?


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#7
shawnhayes

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Good comment. Brembo OE calipers are a big mix-match pairing up (from model to model, front to rear) very inconsistent and no pattern to trace nor reason to observe as to why.

 

As to the brake durability the reason why your M5 brake is holding much better than GTR is probably due to the rotor and pad sizes; as M5 are substantially larger than GTR.

 

M5 Front carbon version is 410x38, Iron version is 400x38 vs. GTR 390x32.6 (earlier model: 380x34mm)

pad-compare-GTR-M5.PNG

 

It appears the new Nismo carbon brake has corrected the under-brake issue with larger rotor and pad, but looks like the non-CCB brake remains the same as before.

 

Warren,

 

I actually have an F90 M5.  EBC has promised an EBC red, blue, and yellow compound.  Only one in stock is a EBC blue on EBC brakes direct for 310 pounds.

 

That being said, advertised pad size is 106.1x182.8x20.4 - I can't copy the EBC diagram here.  Dunno why. https://ebcbrakesdir...632#prettyPhoto

 

The original pad is a Pagid.  Pagid sells nothing in their line to replace a stock f90 pad.  Maybe marketing?

 

It's a BIG pad.  But, not much bigger than a GT-R pad.  Certainly not bigger than the Pagid pad Stillen fit on their CCM kit (much bigger pad, won't fit stock GT-R rotors, I think it's from a Ferari).

 

Would you be interested in putting a compound on a F90 backing plate?  I didn't mean for this to be "all about me", but I can say the F90's front stock braking system blows the GT-R's stock system completely out of the water.  Less fade, less wear, and the rotors last much longer than the stock GT-R one's do.

 

Shawn


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#8
shawnhayes

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why did they switch design?  is that a stiffer caliper?

 

nonremovable bridge design - ALL OTHER THINGS BEING EQUAL - has to be stiffer.  But, materials, size, pad, piston etc. have to stay the same.  Just no way to beat a solid hunk of metal on stiffness vs. two smaller hunks bolted together.

 

Shawn


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#9
Warren-RB

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Shawn,

 

GTR stock pad is only 65mm in depth although most aftermarket suppliers "replaced" it with ZR1 pad (~87mm, effective contact is only 78mm which is our ZR1 pad was made), resulting pistons strick above the pad center area so it's not as effective as a caliper originally designed for a deeper pad as your M5.

 

M5 Blue (standard iron) calipers are same as M3/M4 CCB Gold calipers (D1648) as shown below left which is in fact a trimmed down version of M5 CCB (D1783) on right with ~85mm depth. We offer both pads with street and track compounds but then learned M5 most owners don't track (unlike M3) so a more accepted compound would be an in-between aggressive street compound which we have yet to make.

 

pd1648-m5-front.PNG  pd1738-m5-rear.PNG

 

M5 has a small floating caliper (e-parking) on the rear (same for both iron and CCB) which is really tiny and in-proportional to front. I read an M5 member said in the forum if he knew whoever designed that caliper he was going to "kill" him.

 


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#10
cjmatt

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This is a re-post from GTR Life

https://www.gtrlife....o-gtr-calipers/

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

We are on top of this brand new CCB set up for Nismo 2020+.

 

Front carbon ceramic rotor: 410x38mm

Rear carbon ceramic rotor: 390x32mm

 

The calipers are 6/4 pot, larger and different from the standard ones, but the front caliper has a close top, and the hardware are rather complicated so not that ideal for track applications as the calipers must be detached from spindle for pad inspection and replacement.

 

We have those caliper pistons configured already, upgraded components are available for track enthusiasts.

 

Front caliper:

nismo-front1.PNG

 

Rear caliper:

nismo-rear1.PNG

I haven't seen the brake pads yet but it looks like the front brake pad is a hanging style same as Mustang Shelby GT500 which has an adhesive in the backing plate to prevent it from moving...

Will the GT500 pads fit the standard calipers as well?



#11
Warren-RB

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No. GT500 pad will not fit GTR's standard calipers as it's huge that's similar to Mercedes GTR/S and Audi RS7 come with CCB.


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#12
Biff_Malibu

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The only thing I ever ask myself when I read your posts is have you ever liked anything one of your much larger, experienced competitors has designed?

 

 

This is a re-post from GTR Life

https://www.gtrlife....o-gtr-calipers/

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

We are on top of this brand new CCB set up for Nismo 2020+.

 

Front carbon ceramic rotor: 410x38mm

Rear carbon ceramic rotor: 390x32mm

 

The calipers are 6/4 pot, larger and different from the standard ones, but the front caliper has a close top, and the hardware are rather complicated so not that ideal for track applications as the calipers must be detached from spindle for pad inspection and replacement.

 

We have those caliper pistons configured already, upgraded components are available for track enthusiasts.

 

Front caliper:

nismo-front1.PNG

 

Rear caliper:

nismo-rear1.PNG

I haven't seen the brake pads yet but it looks like the front brake pad is a hanging style same as Mustang Shelby GT500 which has an adhesive in the backing plate to prevent it from moving...


2015 Nissan GT-R NISMO

 


#13
shawnhayes

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Shawn,

 

GTR stock pad is only 65mm in depth although most aftermarket suppliers "replaced" it with ZR1 pad (~87mm, effective contact is only 78mm which is our ZR1 pad was made), resulting pistons strick above the pad center area so it's not as effective as a caliper originally designed for a deeper pad as your M5.

 

M5 Blue (standard iron) calipers are same as M3/M4 CCB Gold calipers (D1648) as shown below left which is in fact a trimmed down version of M5 CCB (D1783) on right with ~85mm depth. We offer both pads with street and track compounds but then learned M5 most owners don't track (unlike M3) so a more accepted compound would be an in-between aggressive street compound which we have yet to make.

 

pd1648-m5-front.PNG  pd1738-m5-rear.PNG

 

M5 has a small floating caliper (e-parking) on the rear (same for both iron and CCB) which is really tiny and in-proportional to front. I read an M5 member said in the forum if he knew whoever designed that caliper he was going to "kill" him.

 

Warren,

 

You're missing what I'm saying.  What you are putting is the previous generation M5.  The new M5 has an all new pad shape, and NO ONE other than Pagid (OEM), EBC (limited quantity now, they're just tooling up), or Porterfield (a less aggressive and squeaky pad for the "cushy" drivers) makes any pads for it.  I have linked the new pad shape above, but I can't copy it to this board (no idea why).

 

However, they DID use the same stupid terrible caliper on the back of the new M5, while the M2 and M3 and M4 all have a properly sized caliper and pad on the rear.  They stupidly copied this for the M8 and M8 grand coupe.

 

That being said, if you are interested in making new pads for the M5 (F90) there may be a market for a pad compound.

 

Shawn

 

 

The F90 has all new pads and calipers.  The pad shape is linked in my above message from EBC. 


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#14
shawnhayes

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The only thing I ever ask myself when I read your posts is have you ever liked anything one of your much larger, experienced competitors has designed?

 

Biff,

 

I agree with you on many points on this one.

 

However, ALL brakes are a compromise somewhere.  You can always find some little "tweak" for brakes to fit you personally.  Even the brand new Nismo calipers.  It WILL be a pain in the ass to remove the whole caliper to replace the pads.

 

Shawn


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#15
Warren-RB

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Warren,

 

You're missing what I'm saying.  What you are putting is the previous generation M5.  The new M5 has an all new pad shape, and NO ONE other than Pagid (OEM), EBC (limited quantity now, they're just tooling up), or Porterfield (a less aggressive and squeaky pad for the "cushy" drivers) makes any pads for it.  I have linked the new pad shape above, but I can't copy it to this board (no idea why).

 

However, they DID use the same stupid terrible caliper on the back of the new M5, while the M2 and M3 and M4 all have a properly sized caliper and pad on the rear.  They stupidly copied this for the M8 and M8 grand coupe.

 

That being said, if you are interested in making new pads for the M5 (F90) there may be a market for a pad compound.

 

Shawn

 

 

The F90 has all new pads and calipers.  The pad shape is linked in my above message from EBC. 

Got it.

 

I didn't notice the front caliper/pad change (from F10 to F90) while the rear caliper and spindle are believed to be unchanged.

 

Anyway can anyone tell or guess the difference between the two calipers?

 

m5-front.PNG?w=568

 

m5-front1.PNG

 

The pad image from your link only one side has mounting hole?

 

ebc-pad.PNG?profile=500


Edited by Warren-RB, 11 June 2020 - 04:14 PM.

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#16
Warren-RB

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The pad is massive, very similar to ZR1 in shape but way thicker.

Just received OE caliper and pad sample:

 

Caliper has the same piston size as earlier model (F10), and Gold caliper which was used for M3/M4 CCB.


Edited by Warren-RB, 11 June 2020 - 04:33 PM.

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#17
shawnhayes

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Got it.

 

I didn't notice the front caliper/pad change (from F10 to F90) while the rear caliper and spindle are believed to be unchanged.

 

Anyway can anyone tell or guess the difference between the two calipers?

 

 

 

 

 

The pad image from your link only one side has mounting hole?

 

ebc-pad.PNG?profile=500

 

 

 

The pad size between the calipers is different, but not hugely so.

 

The crossbridge between the two calipers is very different, but I can't see why they changed it.  I just don't know.

 

As you point out, EBC's diagram is incorrect - there are two holes on each tang.

 

I can tell you straight up, this brake system is MASSIVELY better than the stock GT-R's.  I don't know if it's the rotor, rotor design, caliper design or placement, or the cooling.  I suspect it's the cooling and caliper placement.

 

I won't say my M5 out brakes my GT-R on RacingBrake products, but the damn pads LAST MUCH LONGER.  And that's the stock pads.

 

I don't mean to hijack the thread, but there is SERIOUS development that needs to be done on the stock GT-R system.

 

Shawn M. Hayes


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#18
Warren-RB

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A new huge caliper has been developed as OE caliper replacement for Mustang GT500, Nismo (CCB edition) and also for new Corvette C8.

 

rb6xl-wt.JPG?profile=800

 

rb6xl-gt500wt.JPG?profile=800

 

 

The brake pad:

 

pd1395gt.PNG?profile=800

 


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#19
7racer

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A new huge caliper has been developed as OE caliper replacement for Mustang GT500, Nismo (CCB edition) and also for new Corvette C8.

 

rb6xl-wt.JPG?profile=800

 

rb6xl-gt500wt.JPG?profile=800

 

 

The brake pad:

 

pd1395gt.PNG?profile=800

 

 

whats the difference between this and the one I have warren?


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#20
Warren-RB

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Very good question.

 

The one you have (RB6L) was designed for GTR with 65mm pad depth, although it can also fit ZR1 pad but we all know that a big portion of the pad (@bottom) is extended below the caliper body ie. the pistons are not centering the pad (similar to OE ZR1/Z28 set up.) so it's considered a "retrofit" and the braking efficiency is compromised.

 

Mustang GT500 so far is the most powerful stock car (760 HP) with 420x40mm rotor which is a notch above most of the super-muscle cars around that leads us to develop a comparable caliper (RB6XL) for 87mm depth brake pad.

 

Other than larger body and pad, RB6XL has larger pistons (34/38/40mm=66cm^2) vs. RB6L (32/34/38=57cm^2) ~16% more area; M14 mounting bolts vs. M12

 

RB6L is made for a direct mount to GTR upright while RB6XL is made for a direct mount to GT500.

 

I was a little surprised to see the new Nismo CCB front calipers actually has smaller pistons (28/32/38=51.1cm^2) vs. iron caliper ( 30/34/36=52.7cm^2); rear remains unchanged @30/30mm

 

This is how RB6XL looks with the brake pad installed:

 

rb6xl-body.PNG?profile=wm-800&w=800

 

See how those pistons are nicely positioned against the pad lining (friction material).

 

rb6xl-87mm%2Bpad.PNG?profile=wm-800&w=80

 

BTY this pad has the same size as Audi RS7 & Mercedes GT-R with CCB, GT500, & BMW F90 M5.  Being M5 is 20mm in thickness than usual 17mm, you can understand why Shawn's experienced no same brake issues as GTR.

 

 


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