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Motec Vs Syvecs

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#1
ian.r

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So ALOT of people have been asking me syvecs vs motec. i wanted to make a thread that Darren @ motec, Ryan.G @ syvecs uk(and or Syvecs USA), any vendor that sell either or and customers that want either solution can battle it out in this convo.

 

Syvecs has recently released an update that fixes shifts and utilizes the torque better making it faster than it was before... proof of that was John's GT-R becoming the worlds fastest Alpha12. accomplished something an alpha12 has not done prior. from 8.9 to 8.61

 

Motec has literally no test results publicly. meaning no customers have told anyone about any runs on the drag strip. i have heard shops talk about tuning it, or at least HAVE it in their possession.  Ivey Tune, T1, Boost Logic, AMS, and iirc SP Engineering.

 

MoTeC has stated that they will be developing 12injector and i think they even said flex fuel, both of which the syvecs does already. Motec also states that the engine/transmission control is the most advanced around, makes trans happy and makes it very fast. If you talk a shop that has dug into the Motec a bit, they have said how great it is, but the one person who told me that doesnt tune with syvecs. but this fact shows me the motec will be as fast most likely.

 

All i want to see now, is Motec to finally show some numbers publicly (if they havent done any pulls, i want to see them make some pulls, lol).

 

from talking to some people they seem to think that Syvecs isnt perfect, some quirks about it, but i think they can't deny the added trips for saftey in any stand alone (when paid to add and tune them) are well worth it over stock ecu.... granted a stand alone cant save EVERYTHING (like when your fuel is NOT labeled MTBE when it should be and it affects your injectors swelling them and causing a failure).

 

The other thing about the stand alones is there evolution... like syvecs has evolved alot since its introduction. fixing shifts, better torque handling, cruise control etc.

 

unknown evolution of motec but it just released and i have not really talked about it other than with Sean Ivey, and only briefly about it. i have heard the 12inj solution is working and will be ironed out, dunno any eta. i dunno if this delay is why we have not seen any build on the track yet with the motec?... i remember omega only uses 6inj.

 

 

So with this all said, any corrections to the above id like to hear. i may have made a mistakes, or just didnt make what i said as clear as i wanted to make it.

 

 

Id like to hear from Motec, syvecs, customers and vendors (who sell and dont sell either solution). hell even cobb and ecutek people/customers etc chime in.


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#2
Polivoks

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I still haven't seen a GT-R running on Motec yet. The product was released on their site April 4. A couple of months seems like it would be enough time for someone to show us something about it?

 

I do have Syvecs. I'm happy with it. The only thing that I really want now is some way to reset TPMS. I hate not having it since I don't have runflats and the light is annoying. The process now to change wheels/TPMS would be to like swap ECUs back to stock, change it on consult at a dealer, then swap ECUs back to Syvecs. A huge undertaking. Cruise control is in now which was needed. That is a lot of why I like Syvecs - they are responsive and update frequently. The car drives awesome on it, idles great. I like the software. I don't tune, but I love statistics. It runs on my MBA in Parallels just fine. The built-in safeties have potentially saved my engine a number of times already. I can't wait to road course the car and test the traction control there. Having said that, I don't think it is for everyone. The cost of Syvecs + tune is many more times that of Cobb AP + tune, and that's before adding anything on to Syvecs in the way of additional monitoring or whatever. It seems to make the most sense for specialized builds - big hp cars, road course, etc where you need a specific level of control that the stock ECU can't provide.


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#3
DarrenR@MoTeC

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Nicely started topic Ian!

 

I think when people think of a Motec ECU they think of the M800 series straight away. They've been around forever and are relatively simple to use and tune with very good features. Still, a lot of functions don't work as well as they could and there are some restrictions meaning it can be  difficult to make all features work on some newer cars. The core of the M800 comes from the Motec 2 group ECU designed back in the early 90's and this is where some of the restrictions lay.

The M1 ECU series was a start from scratch, new hardware and software platform to free up all restrictions so we can customise firmwares easily to suit the application and work in the correct way using real world physics models and strategies.

 

There are two parts to the M1 software.

 

M1 Build is a programming environment where the developer has all the tools available to build virtually any control system they wish, with a bunch of inputs and outputs suited for automotive use, and engine specific functions like crank angle reading and crank angle synchronous output triggering, knock signal reading, CAN, LIN, RS232 and Ethernet to mention a few.

Very good knowledge of software programming, electronics and control strategies is required to write a firmware to do something useful and do it well, so this is put in the too hard basket for most of your average tuners. However we are planning on releasing this software to developers where they will be able to rebrand the M1 ECU running their firmware. Some details are still being sorted out. 

Having this software tool allows developers to very quickly and easily compile new firmware in a matter of seconds meaning custom changes can be made to individual ECUs, or a whole platform without effecting the entire world using the M1 ECU. 

 

The other part is M1 Tune which is the user interface to the ECU for tuning and changing settings. It is designed to relay live information to the user so they can make quick and well informed decisions on adjustments to make. The firmware developer decides what channels the user can see and what they can adjust, be it a single value, a list or up to a 3 axis (4D) table. The more parameters that are exposed, the more difficult it can be for the user to tune, but less means less flexibility.

Using a firmware customised to a single vehicle allows us to reduce the complexity for the user as there is no redundant functionality or settings, or use of functions for task that they were not intended for. Everything is named descriptively using the correct units of measurement.

 

The R35 demanded a lot of specially designed control strategies to maintain all OE functionality, interface with the TCM for gear shifting and delivering the correct information to the VDC for safety.

This dictated us to use a comprehensive torque model and different control strategies to what most traditional Motec tuners are familiar with. We also added a lot of features to allow for ease of tuning so that various components can be modified without retuning the entire car.

With these changes came a learning curve which a few tuners who have tackled head on are reaching the top of now.

 

There is a lack of documentation currently and a few missing features in the initial release which was caused by pressure to release the product early. Early being over a year later than I would have liked, but we are still playing catch up now. I believe this is why no one has really had a crack at the big one yet, just still learning, gaining confidence and waiting for the coming features.

In the coming few months, all of these issues will be resolved and we will listen to customers problems if they occur and make changes to the firmware if required.

 

In the mean time, the people who have bought the R35 M1 ECU kit have an ECU which will be supported for years to come, with more flexibility and features coming adding value to what they already have, as well as compatibility with a huge range of existing and future Motec products.

 

Obviously I know the Motec ECU inside out, I wrote a lot of the code it's running, did all of the CAN reverse engineering, and all of the ground work on the car (as we as all the Motec TCM Dev), but one of my collogues (who is much smarter that I am) wrote the code for the real party trick of the ECU being the modelled mass flows, manifold pressure and torque control system.

 

I know virtually nothing about the Syvecs ECU, but from the outside it looks like a rebranded Life Racing ECU running a generic engine ECU firmware (like the M800) with some custom firmware bits added in, and a CAN gateway box to translate all the Nissan CAN to Syvecs CAN. There has got to be a lot more to it than that so I'm interested to know about the good and bad points of it. I can then make comparisons to the Motec, for better, the same or for worse and give my opinion to the community. Of course I'd like it if Ryan.G could discuss so there is no miss truths or biased opinions!

 

Cheers,

Darren.


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#4
Ryan.g

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I still haven't seen a GT-R running on Motec yet. The product was released on their site April 4. A couple of months seems like it would be enough time for someone to show us something about it?

 

I do have Syvecs. I'm happy with it. The only thing that I really want now is some way to reset TPMS. I hate not having it since I don't have runflats and the light is annoying. The process now to change wheels/TPMS would be to like swap ECUs back to stock, change it on consult at a dealer, then swap ECUs back to Syvecs. A huge undertaking. Cruise control is in now which was needed. That is a lot of why I like Syvecs - they are responsive and update frequently. The car drives awesome on it, idles great. I like the software. I don't tune, but I love statistics. It runs on my MBA in Parallels just fine. The built-in safeties have potentially saved my engine a number of times already. I can't wait to road course the car and test the traction control there. Having said that, I don't think it is for everyone. The cost of Syvecs + tune is many more times that of Cobb AP + tune, and that's before adding anything on to Syvecs in the way of additional monitoring or whatever. It seems to make the most sense for specialized builds - big hp cars, road course, etc where you need a specific level of control that the stock ECU can't provide.

 

Hi 

 

Thanks for the support and just to add to this, We have been pulling alot of Can messaging in to be able to do stuff like the gearbox relearn, TPMS reset etc. 

 

As you have seen with the product over the last year when customers have wanted something it gets done. If there is a way to do it so it works on every year GTR we will add it.

 

Chris will have a whole host of updates for you soon so get in touch.

 

Ryan



#5
Ryan.g

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Ian,

In regards to your comments on quirks, of course over the last year there has been some small issues found but as i'm sure Tony@T1, Chris@AMS, Wayne@T1, Shep, Toby@GTAUTO, Ben Linney will all agree on is that it get done in no time. When Chris was first working with me a year back i had updates coming with a few hours lol.

There is a reason no info is out on the Motec since its been out for over 2 months and most traders have it sat on the shelf. Because maybe they are having the same kind of Quirks which anyone will have with any new product but its how quickly it is dealt with and supported that makes a product worth while. None of this "its coming" repeated 5 times.

I am waiting to see a traders comments on how it works as with any competition it benefits every owner so i excited to see anything new they have just like i am sure Motec like to keep an eye of what we are doing ;)

Ryan

#6
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Nicely started topic Ian!

 

I think when people think of a Motec ECU they think of the M800 series straight away. They've been around forever and are relatively simple to use and tune with very good features. Still, a lot of functions don't work as well as they could and there are some restrictions meaning it can be  difficult to make all features work on some newer cars. The core of the M800 comes from the Motec 2 group ECU designed back in the early 90's and this is where some of the restrictions lay.

The M1 ECU series was a start from scratch, new hardware and software platform to free up all restrictions so we can customise firmwares easily to suit the application and work in the correct way using real world physics models and strategies.

 

There are two parts to the M1 software.

 

M1 Build is a programming environment where the developer has all the tools available to build virtually any control system they wish, with a bunch of inputs and outputs suited for automotive use, and engine specific functions like crank angle reading and crank angle synchronous output triggering, knock signal reading, CAN, LIN, RS232 and Ethernet to mention a few.

Very good knowledge of software programming, electronics and control strategies is required to write a firmware to do something useful and do it well, so this is put in the too hard basket for most of your average tuners. However we are planning on releasing this software to developers where they will be able to rebrand the M1 ECU running their firmware. Some details are still being sorted out. 

Having this software tool allows developers to very quickly and easily compile new firmware in a matter of seconds meaning custom changes can be made to individual ECUs, or a whole platform without effecting the entire world using the M1 ECU. 

 

The other part is M1 Tune which is the user interface to the ECU for tuning and changing settings. It is designed to relay live information to the user so they can make quick and well informed decisions on adjustments to make. The firmware developer decides what channels the user can see and what they can adjust, be it a single value, a list or up to a 3 axis (4D) table. The more parameters that are exposed, the more difficult it can be for the user to tune, but less means less flexibility.

Using a firmware customised to a single vehicle allows us to reduce the complexity for the user as there is no redundant functionality or settings, or use of functions for task that they were not intended for. Everything is named descriptively using the correct units of measurement.

 

The R35 demanded a lot of specially designed control strategies to maintain all OE functionality, interface with the TCM for gear shifting and delivering the correct information to the VDC for safety.

This dictated us to use a comprehensive torque model and different control strategies to what most traditional Motec tuners are familiar with. We also added a lot of features to allow for ease of tuning so that various components can be modified without retuning the entire car.

With these changes came a learning curve which a few tuners who have tackled head on are reaching the top of now.

 

There is a lack of documentation currently and a few missing features in the initial release which was caused by pressure to release the product early. Early being over a year later than I would have liked, but we are still playing catch up now. I believe this is why no one has really had a crack at the big one yet, just still learning, gaining confidence and waiting for the coming features.

In the coming few months, all of these issues will be resolved and we will listen to customers problems if they occur and make changes to the firmware if required.

 

In the mean time, the people who have bought the R35 M1 ECU kit have an ECU which will be supported for years to come, with more flexibility and features coming adding value to what they already have, as well as compatibility with a huge range of existing and future Motec products.

 

Obviously I know the Motec ECU inside out, I wrote a lot of the code it's running, did all of the CAN reverse engineering, and all of the ground work on the car (as we as all the Motec TCM Dev), but one of my collogues (who is much smarter that I am) wrote the code for the real party trick of the ECU being the modelled mass flows, manifold pressure and torque control system.

 

I know virtually nothing about the Syvecs ECU, but from the outside it looks like a rebranded Life Racing ECU running a generic engine ECU firmware (like the M800) with some custom firmware bits added in, and a CAN gateway box to translate all the Nissan CAN to Syvecs CAN. There has got to be a lot more to it than that so I'm interested to know about the good and bad points of it. I can then make comparisons to the Motec, for better, the same or for worse and give my opinion to the community. Of course I'd like it if Ryan.G could discuss so there is no miss truths or biased opinions!

 

Cheers,

Darren.

Hi Darren 

 

I would love to know how the Motec torque control is the "most advance torque control available"

 

Also the same goes for how the traction control is the most advanced ever comments. ?

 

These comments on videos and forums need to be backed up with media, logs etc just like we have done.

 

 

Also Darren the Syvec's Unit which you guys have or had btw was our first release and back being an unknown brand in the US market i was really disappointed to find out that we were sold out but it has worked to our advantage in the end ;) More on this soon

 

Ryan



#7
DarrenR@MoTeC

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Hi Ryan,

 

I'd first like to go back to you post on GTR Life as I don't want to add to the the thread there anymore -

http://www.gtrlife.c...60#entry1191808

 

 

 

I'm happy with that as long as you stick to the facts, pay your trader fee and not state silly comments like this "I am extremely confident I could put the Motec ECU on the this car and run the same time or better using the current M1 R35 firmware. I could probably even do it remotely! 12 injectors can be paired currently, it's just's not nice for idle, but that's only temporary until the 12 injector support is finished testing."


These kind of comments are not what i want to see in a thread. Best to just do it and let that do the talking.

 

My comments prompting this reply may have been a bit hasty so I apologize for that, but it's far from silly and was in response to your suggesting (maybe I read into it too much) that the Motec ECU would not be able to achieve a record time because it is missing a few features, none of which are needed on Shep's car. So I can only say I'm extremely confident it can do it because I know what our ECU can do, how it has performed in other cars, but I haven't been given the opportunity as yet. I'm not going to say it will do it for certain until I've done it.

And doing it remotely remark was to prompt people into asking for help that I can provide remotely for free which I've now talked about with someone already!

 

There is a reason no info is out on the Motec since its been out for over 2 months and most traders have it sat on the shelf. Because they are having the same kind of Quirks which anyone will have with any new product but its how quickly it is dealt with and supported that makes a product worth while. None of this "its coming" repeated 5 times.

 

Ryan

 

I think it's a little unfair to assume the Motec ECU has quirks, because it doesn't have any that I'm aware of, and all support questions come back to me so I should know. If anyone has any that have not been addressed please contact me.

Any issues that have risen have been due to tuning caused by the lack of documentation we have at the moment. There has been no need to do any firmware updates for fixes of issues in existing functionality. If there was they would have been done immediately as the M1 allows for fast and easy updates. 

The Motec GTR ECU was first drove a car in early 2011 and raced in a major event in October 2011, and that was with a Motec TCM also. It worked the same with OE TCM, or the Motec TCM worked the same with the OE ECM. At that time it had some quirks but nothing that slowed the car down. I'm confident we have all the bugs out now to do with the car integration.

 

I say 'it's coming' because I'm not in control of the priority of work at motec so I can't give I solid date. When I have told people am estimated date thay get annoyed if that passes so no more dates. It will just appear one day soon!

The reason it's taking time to bring out an update for hi/lo injection is because we are developing a model for the film of fuel that is deposited in the inlet manifold walls. This will replace the current transient fuel or 'accelerator pump' calculation. It's far easier to tune and works properly at all engine temps. There is a separate section for high and low injectors. This means the transition from low to high injection can be perfect without a hickup on change over. To add 12 injector support without this feature would have taken less than a day including testing but we don't like doing work twice or releasing something with known issues. Perhaps we should have in this case?

 

How does the Syvecs ECU cope with the transition into high injectors??

 

 

Hi Darren 

 

I would love to know how the Motec torque control is the "most advance torque control available"

 

Also the same goes for how the traction control is the most advanced ever comments. ?

 

These comments on videos and forums need to be backed up with media, logs etc just like we have done.

 

 

Also Darren the Syvec's Unit which you guys have or had btw was our first release and back being an unknown brand in the US market i was really disappointed to find out that we were sold out but it has worked to our advantage in the end ;) More on this soon

 

Ryan

 

I don't know where you heard those "quotes" because they didn't come from me.

The torque control works excellent, but it's just like some OE ECUs strategy, nothing that special. The thing that is really great about it tho is torque is tuned automatically when you tune the efficiency table (SD fuel table). There another table that can be optionally adjusted to affect the TCM and it remains to be seen if we need more than this, but we'll add more if need.

How does the Syvecs deal with the torque limit requests from the VDC and TCM? Does it have a torque based limiting system?

 

Traction control?? We don't have ECU based traction yet so I don't know who's telling you those fibs. We only adjustments on the OE traction system. This does work well but there is room for improvement.

 

We don't really care what our competition does, it makes no difference to the product we make as we just make the best product we can and what the market demands. That said, it's in the GTR communities interest to have the facts on both ECUs, and I know very little about the Syvecs where the rest of the world knows very little about the Motec. This is why I'm asking questions so a real comparison can be made.



#8
changster

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Ryan, Darren

What is the size, breadth, and width of the support team you have in place for the R35 platform including the in house team and the outside support network?

Second, historically when you come out with a platform specific standalone, how long did your support team support the platform? As in, how many years? When do you expect for the support and resources to drop off for the R35?

- 4.4 liter Alpha 12 GTR built by TSM

 

13180940063_33e81c30d6_z.jpg


#9
DarrenR@MoTeC

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Ryan, Darren
What is the size, breadth, and width of the support team you have in place for the R35 platform including the in house team and the outside support network?
Second, historically when you come out with a platform specific standalone, how long did your support team support the platform? As in, how many years? When do you expect for the support and resources to drop off for the R35?

Our 'in house' support team consists of a team in Australia (head office where I am located), an office in the UK supporting Europe and an office in the east and west of the US, all with at least a couple of guys that know the M1 very well, and are pretty much up to speed on the GTR specifically.
Then we have all the dealers around the world, plus all of Dodson Motorsport dealers. Not all our dealers will tune GTRs but the ones that do are supported by me directly. Plus I'm only a email away from anyone and our data logging is extremely good so problems can almost always be solved from logging alone.

We still support our first plugin ECUs for the EVO and WRX. We will support for as long as there is demand, if that answers the question?

#10
Ryan.g

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Ryan, Darren

What is the size, breadth, and width of the support team you have in place for the R35 platform including the in house team and the outside support network?

Second, historically when you come out with a platform specific standalone, how long did your support team support the platform? As in, how many years? When do you expect for the support and resources to drop off for the R35?

 

3 Members of staff supporting the R35GTR Product Daily and soon to be 4 out in the Middle East, All of which have calibrated many of the R35GTR kits and know the product inside out.

 

Our first Impreza applications will be supported for as long as the company exists and the same applies for all our products. With any of the products you purchase from Syvecs it comes with a years warranty. 



#11
Ryan.g

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I don't know where you heard those "quotes" because they didn't come from me.
The torque control works excellent, but it's just like some OE ECUs strategy, nothing that special. The thing that is really great about it tho is torque is tuned automatically when you tune the efficiency table (SD fuel table). There another table that can be optionally adjusted to affect the TCM and it remains to be seen if we need more than this, but we'll add more if need.
How does the Syvecs deal with the torque limit requests from the VDC and TCM? Does it have a torque based limiting system?

Traction control?? We don't have ECU based traction yet so I don't know who's telling you those fibs. We only adjustments on the OE traction system. This does work well but there is room for improvement.

We don't really care what our competition does, it makes no difference to the product we make as we just make the best product we can and what the market demands. That said, it's in the GTR communities interest to have the facts on both ECUs, and I know very little about the Syvecs where the rest of the world knows very little about the Motec. This is why I'm asking questions so a real comparison can be made.




This is from Motec Direct, Your a fair chap Darren so know you didn't write that but its incorrect..... Might have had the wording wrong on Advance but "better than Competitors" is still not correct seeing as the Traction control doesn't even work.

#12
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Ian, 

 

In regards to your comments on quirks, of course over the last year there has been some small issues found but as i'm sure Tony@T1, Chris@AMS, Wayne@T1, Shep, Toby@GTAUTO, Ben Linney will all agree on is that it get done in no time. When Chris was first working with me a year back i had updates coming with a few hours lol.

 

There is a reason no info is out on the Motec since its been out for over 2 months and most traders have it sat on the shelf. Because they are having the same kind of Quirks which anyone will have with any new product but its how quickly it is dealt with and supported that makes a product worth while. None of this "its coming" repeated 5 times.

 

I am waiting to see a traders comments on how it works as with any competition it benefits every owner so i excited to see anything new they have just like i am sure Motec like to keep an eye of what we are doing ;)

 

Ryan

 

Hi Ryan,

 

Keep up the good job by responding to any technical issue we dealers have on Syvecs products. As of now, for me I am very satisfied with the technical support you have given me for the pass one year. Whenever I asked for something to be added to the software or needed help on something , you get on it right away and have a new firmware and software back to me in no time. :) or even help me fix issues on the phone. I don't think I ever had this fast technical response from other Engine Management System I dealt with before. Great Job Mate.



#13
Ryan.g

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Hi Ryan,

 

I'd first like to go back to you post on GTR Life as I don't want to add to the the thread there anymore -

http://www.gtrlife.c...60#entry1191808

 

 

My comments prompting this reply may have been a bit hasty so I apologize for that, but it's far from silly and was in response to your suggesting (maybe I read into it too much) that the Motec ECU would not be able to achieve a record time because it is missing a few features, none of which are needed on Shep's car. So I can only say I'm extremely confident it can do it because I know what our ECU can do, how it has performed in other cars, but I haven't been given the opportunity as yet. I'm not going to say it will do it for certain until I've done it.

And doing it remotely remark was to prompt people into asking for help that I can provide remotely for free which I've now talked about with someone already!

 

 

I think it's a little unfair to assume the Motec ECU has quirks, because it doesn't have any that I'm aware of, and all support questions come back to me so I should know. If anyone has any that have not been addressed please contact me.

Any issues that have risen have been due to tuning caused by the lack of documentation we have at the moment. There has been no need to do any firmware updates for fixes of issues in existing functionality. If there was they would have been done immediately as the M1 allows for fast and easy updates. 

The Motec GTR ECU was first drove a car in early 2011 and raced in a major event in October 2011, and that was with a Motec TCM also. It worked the same with OE TCM, or the Motec TCM worked the same with the OE ECM. At that time it had some quirks but nothing that slowed the car down. I'm confident we have all the bugs out now to do with the car integration.

 

I say 'it's coming' because I'm not in control of the priority of work at motec so I can't give I solid date. When I have told people am estimated date thay get annoyed if that passes so no more dates. It will just appear one day soon!

The reason it's taking time to bring out an update for hi/lo injection is because we are developing a model for the film of fuel that is deposited in the inlet manifold walls. This will replace the current transient fuel or 'accelerator pump' calculation. It's far easier to tune and works properly at all engine temps. There is a separate section for high and low injectors. This means the transition from low to high injection can be perfect without a hickup on change over. To add 12 injector support without this feature would have taken less than a day including testing but we don't like doing work twice or releasing something with known issues. Perhaps we should have in this case?

 

How does the Syvecs ECU cope with the transition into high injectors??

 

 

 

I don't know where you heard those "quotes" because they didn't come from me.

The torque control works excellent, but it's just like some OE ECUs strategy, nothing that special. The thing that is really great about it tho is torque is tuned automatically when you tune the efficiency table (SD fuel table). There another table that can be optionally adjusted to affect the TCM and it remains to be seen if we need more than this, but we'll add more if need.

How does the Syvecs deal with the torque limit requests from the VDC and TCM? Does it have a torque based limiting system?

 

Traction control?? We don't have ECU based traction yet so I don't know who's telling you those fibs. We only adjustments on the OE traction system. This does work well but there is room for improvement.

 

We don't really care what our competition does, it makes no difference to the product we make as we just make the best product we can and what the market demands. That said, it's in the GTR communities interest to have the facts on both ECUs, and I know very little about the Syvecs where the rest of the world knows very little about the Motec. This is why I'm asking questions so a real comparison can be made.

 

Hi Darren,

 

After having a big meeting about this thread today in the Office i have been told to not post any more technical information after our findings last night with the similar can bus messaging.  

 

I'm sorry that i cant answer your questions and i'm sure others wanted a good old debate but alot of the technical questions which have been asked are present on the the GTR life S8 Thread which ianR started.

 

Ryan



#14
Shep

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The reason it's taking time to bring out an update for hi/lo injection is because we are developing a model for the film of fuel that is deposited in the inlet manifold walls.

Darren,

 I do have a question on this.  Are you saying that this film of fuel is the same for every intake setup and port finish? Is it also the same for different fuels and fuel temps?  If not will it be adjustable? and if it is aren't we back to using transient fueling adjustments? 

 

I am not finding any indication that there is a problem with the method syvecs uses to blend so I am just curious what the difference is and why we should trust this math? 

 

As I have mentioned I have a M1 on the shelf that I do expect I will need to dig into if more people start using them.  I feel it is my job as a vendor to make sure that I understand what is going on around the car and not just what I build.  Whether it be Cobb, Syvecs, Motec etc I need to make sure the trans is happy and have answers for my customers when they call with concerns about how the car drives or shifts.  



#15
DarrenR@MoTeC

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Hi Darren,

 

After having a big meeting about this thread today in the Office i have been told to not post any more technical information after our findings last night with the copied can bus messaging.  

 

I'm sorry that i cant answer your questions and i'm sure others wanted a good old debate but alot of the technical questions which have been asked are present on the the GTR life S8 Thread which ianR started.

 

Ryan

 

 

Ryan, your claim we copied your CAN messaging is a blatant LIE.

I can prove this comprehensively. If you want to try and back up your claim, tell me what CAN ID we copied that doesn't exist on the OE car?? I'll take no response to this question as admitting you are LYING.

Also, we were racing the Motec GTR ECU in 2011, long before I had ever heard of syvecs. Why would I need to copy your possible mistakes??

The only reason I can think for you to do this is to try and discredit us because you know the Motec ECU is far superior. There's a claim that I have no proof of yet, but it's very likely true and will be proved soon enough.

 

I have never put a CAN analyser on a car with a Syvecs ECU on it, just like I didn't reverse engineer a COBB for code clearing, I used a Consult 3 for that so there is no possibility for mistakes. 

 

I really hoped this could have been a civil conversation. Not once did I make a false claim against the Syvecs ECU, only asked questions about it, which now it's plain to see that the reason you wont answer my questions is because you don't have a good answer, because your ECU doesn't have the functionality or has a very poor version of it.

 

If all your technical info is available in the other thread, you wont have any problem in reposting it here so a side by side comparison can be made.

 

Now can we please get back to civility and post about our own ECUs features? Not answering my questions about your ECU looks really bad for you.



#16
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Just yesterday I was talking to someone who has used both Motec and Syvecs on a GTR, according to him Motec and Syvecs look very much a like. What does that mean? I don't know; however, I do know Syvecs was the first to develop a standalone for the GTR.



#17
Shep

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Just yesterday I was talking to someone who has used both Motec and Syvecs on a GTR, according to him Motec and Syvecs look very much a like. What does that mean? I don't know; however, I do know Syvecs was the first to develop a standalone for the GTR.

I would question whether or not they have used both. Saying they are alike is the farthest thing I would say.  I am not saying good/bad for one or the other but it is like pc vs mac lol  

 

Maybe they meant the shape of the ecu ? 



#18
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I would question whether or not they have used both. Saying they are alike is the farthest thing I would say.  I am not saying good/bad for one or the other but it is like pc vs mac lol  

 

Maybe they meant the shape of the ecu ? 

Oh no, nothing to do with the physical shape of it.

 

I meant has he used both Syvecs and Motec on the GTR platform. I assume they will be tuning with both ECUs.



#19
Shep

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Oh no, nothing to do with the physical shape of it.

 

I meant has he used both Syvecs and Motec on the GTR platform. I assume they will be tuning with both ECUs.

There really must be a misunderstanding.  

 

I believe both have demo software available which would easily show the drastic differences in how they approach the software. 



#20
DarrenR@MoTeC

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This is from Motec Direct, Your a fair chap Darren so know you didn't write that but its incorrect..... Might have had the wording wrong on Advance but "better than Competitors" is still not correct seeing as the Traction control doesn't even work..

 

Also having saw a Motec R35 Kit last night for the first time i must say it looks very pretty.... but having a sneaky look at the canbus i can assure you that the gearshifts will not be anywhere near as good as Sheps as the messages which you are sending our are indentical to our old code? Also funny enough we sneakily put some messages into the can bus which were not needed or on the OEM car and oddly enough they are present on the Motec kit which i was shocked about!!

 

Yes well that's what a marketing department does unfortunately, but I had nothing to with that one line you are fixated on. We did not have evidence ours was better at the time so I'm sorry for that, but there is still no evidence either way. And our system does have traction control and it works great, so stop saying things that are just not true!

 

Ryan, also please stop making assumptions about our ECU because they are wrong. Just because a CAN message may look the same as yours doesn't mean it is at all times. We have just found different ways to do the same thing. Gear shifting on a Motec ECU is extremely fast, but you tune it to how you like. There is no evidence of who's is faster or better yet, I'm just confident we can match or outperform the Syvecs ECU because I know I can make a Longitudinal G Sensor trace barely deviate on a gear shift meaning the torque to the rear wheels stays constant, not reducing losing time, or increasing which can break traction.






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