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Amsoil ATF in the GR6?? Recommended by Respected GTR Shop

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#1
Robertyu

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Okay guys, the Topic Title says it all..

 

I am dealing with a major, universally respected GTR shop, buying fuel system stuff, and getting ready to do a larger build soon.

 

I am at enough miles where I REALLY need to change my factory trans fluid out, and this shop recommended and shipped me Amsoil ATF.

 

Yes, they recommended Amsoil ATF, not Amsoil DCT.  I asked if the rep was sure about the Amsoil ATF product, and he said he was, and that they use it in stock, and Sheptrans built trans all the time.  I found that odd as I've not found anybody stating they recommend or use Amsoil AFT in our GR6 transmissions.  I've searched this forum, the shitty forum too, and the internet at large.  I've found instances of people recommending Amsoil DCT, but not Amsoil ATF.

 

Due to the stellar reputation of this shop, and actually afraid to call them back (again) and say really?  ATF?, are you sure? (again).   This shop is one of the most respected shop on this site, and I will leave it at that. 

 

I'm sitting here looking at this bottle of Amsoil ATF they sent me, and I've delayed this fluid change enough already, so who has an opinion on this?

 

 


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#2
gtrguyinaz

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I am no expert but I don't buy it............ Many who want to keep the warranty use OEM.......If your past that point, Motul DCT is widely used.........

Just pick up the phone and call Shep or Jacks.........they will I am sure tell ya what they use...........

As for your widely reputable shop , once you get the answer, tell us who this is ??????????


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#3
droptopp

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I’d only use what Shep says regardless lol
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TSM Billet Crank 4.1 w/ CP billet pistons, TSM Elite Prime turbos, TSM Wet Sump Oling upgrade, flex fuel, ETS mid and down pipe, STM titanium axle back, STM race FMIC, ID2000’s, Shep One K with drop gears and all the goodies., DS Axles, Volk Saga 18” 10/12” (MT ET Streets), Advan GT Premium 20” R888. 1450+ hp / 1210+ tq

Old setups : Alpha 9 w/ AMS 3.8, GTX3582R Gen II w/ AMS 4.1 billet crank, GTX3582R Gen II w/ AMS 4.0 big bore billet crank and of course FBO E85.

#4
Doug@WGP

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Shep does recommend to use Amsoll ATF low viscosity (blue cap) in built transmissions. It has less stiction and more clutch protection than Dodson Red but less gear protection, so it’s a trade off.
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#5
I8Tokyo

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Shep does recommend to use Amsoll ATF low viscosity (blue cap) in built transmissions. It has less stiction and more clutch protection than Dodson Red but less gear protection, so it’s a trade off.

You got your answer



#6
elf_cruiser

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I’ve been using Amsoil ATF (red cap) for several years. Completely stock GR6, and near stock power levels but heavy road course use with sustained temps above 250. This fluid handles the heat very very well and has not caused any adverse effects so far. I choose it because of the temps that my trans has to deal with. For a near stock, daily driven car that doesn’t see the track - I would choose their DCT fluid, or the Pentosin DCT fluid, or just factory fluid if you don’t mind paying for it.

2010 GT-R - Matte Gray, AP/Carbotech, BSE trans cooler, BSE tune on ECUTek, H&R sways, AMSOIL, NASA-AZ TT2 and occasional DD
1976 FJ-40 Rock Buggy - tube chassis, LQ4, 700R4, NP205, Rockwells, F&R hydraulic steering, Fox, Ballistic, lots of 4130, 7068, and AR400

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#7
haseeb

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Im running amsoil ATF blue cap as per shep recommendation in my shep1k drag pack ..
So far going great .

#8
Dsm_alpha

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Am soil ATF here as well

#9
Tim

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I guess I need to ask Shep a question
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#10
Aequitas & Veritas

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I don't track as much anymore but use the Amsoil DCT as Shep built my 1.5 and that's what he recommended, but I knew Elf and others here ran the ATF. So yes it's a good recommendation. As long as it's coming from a builder/shop it is most likely a recommendation for a reason.


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#11
descartesfool

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I used Pentosin FFL4 for 11 years in my 2009 with an HKS tranny cooler, and tracked it a ton and never had any transmission issues, still original and running fine with its new owner. Plus it is much cheaper than OEM fluid so you can change it more often if you are inclined. In the beginning of GT-R tracking, I had many e-mail discussions with Pentosin's chief scientist as they designed the fluid for all the German DCT's like ZF and Getrag, so they had infinitely more users for their DCT fluid than any other brand. Those guys know what they are talking about in terms of DCT fluids. Plus you can buy it in 20 litre containers. The difference with Pentosin is that they are a German company and they actually worked with the German car and tranny manufacturers from the neginning of DCT's (VW/Audi) to develop their fluids, so that is why I have always had confidence in them.

 

They also have FFL Racing which is specifically developed for the Nissan GT-R, but I have never used that, as I had two 20L containers of FFL-4 before they came out with the FFL Racing. The specs for both FFL-4 and FFL Racing can be found here on page xxii and xxiii:

 

http://pentosin.net/...Catalog2015.pdf

 

They make FFL-2 for Audi/VW, FFL-3 for Porsche PDK's as well.


Edited by descartesfool, 27 August 2019 - 01:15 PM.

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#12
Tim

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Thanks for the info
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#13
droptopp

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I checked my old emails and my OneK with drop gears and all the goodies including drag pan is filled with ATL per Shep.

dfca4e2302125cf18db6a6db41065c6b.jpg

Edited by droptopp, 27 August 2019 - 02:53 PM.

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TSM Billet Crank 4.1 w/ CP billet pistons, TSM Elite Prime turbos, TSM Wet Sump Oling upgrade, flex fuel, ETS mid and down pipe, STM titanium axle back, STM race FMIC, ID2000’s, Shep One K with drop gears and all the goodies., DS Axles, Volk Saga 18” 10/12” (MT ET Streets), Advan GT Premium 20” R888. 1450+ hp / 1210+ tq

Old setups : Alpha 9 w/ AMS 3.8, GTX3582R Gen II w/ AMS 4.1 billet crank, GTX3582R Gen II w/ AMS 4.0 big bore billet crank and of course FBO E85.

#14
shawnhayes

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Years and years went into all the above.  Years.

 

Summary:

Got a stock GT-R and wanna keep warranty? - Nissan fluid.  Expensive but works fine for stock power

Cheaping out because of lots of track but still want a super premium fluid?  - Pentosin as above in descartesfool has the most data.  Amsoil is probably equivalent.  Motul has a fluid that is specified that is similar to both the Pentosin and Amsoil

Built transmission? Lots of extra power?  Listen to the shop that built the car.  Fluids tested for this with tons of data:

  Pentosin

  Amsoil

  Dodson

  WillAll (if your shop recommended it - I tested this tons and it did great on the gears.  Maybe not as good for valve body or clutches)

 

We have reams of used oil analyses on these. It's probably not worth arguing the individual points.  They're small.  All of these fluids have performed pretty flawlessly, but the Amsoil certainly has a lot of users from Shep.

 

MAKE DAMN SURE YOU HAVE A TRANS COOLER IF YOU'RE GETTING THE FLUID HOT.

 

Can't tell you how many people learned that lesson.  Including me.

 

Shawn


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#15
Tim

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Years and years went into all the above.  Years.
 
Summary:
Got a stock GT-R and wanna keep warranty? - Nissan fluid.  Expensive but works fine for stock power
Cheaping out because of lots of track but still want a super premium fluid?  - Pentosin as above in descartesfool has the most data.  Amsoil is probably equivalent.  Motul has a fluid that is specified that is similar to both the Pentosin and Amsoil
Built transmission? Lots of extra power?  Listen to the shop that built the car.  Fluids tested for this with tons of data:
  Pentosin
  Amsoil
  Dodson
  WillAll (if your shop recommended it - I tested this tons and it did great on the gears.  Maybe not as good for valve body or clutches)
 
We have reams of used oil analyses on these. It's probably not worth arguing the individual points.  They're small.  All of these fluids have performed pretty flawlessly, but the Amsoil certainly has a lot of users from Shep.
 
MAKE DAMN SURE YOU HAVE A TRANS COOLER IF YOU'RE GETTING THE FLUID HOT.
 
Can't tell you how many people learned that lesson.  Including me.
 
Shawn



The man has spoken,nice to see you chiming in Shawn
I also want to say it’s nice also for everybody else that has chimed in and told us what fluid they have been using and why.
Lots of good info
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#16
descartesfool

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Here for historical interest sake is some of the e-mail discussions I had with Dr. Edgar Steigerwald of Pentosin back in 2008. I don't think he would mind me sharing this. He had asked me what I worked in and had told him it was acoustics:

 

"Before the first DCFT had been developed (FFL-2 for VW) the ATFs had the reputation to be the most difficult oils to be developed. The difficulty here is to find the best compromise of different requirements like e.g. to make the clutch work smoothly without causing shudder, to lubricate the gears without wear, protect the bearings, avoid foam,etc. Shudder is a bad noise. In the first place it is caused by an incompatibility of the friction of the oil and the clutch material. But the body of the car also plays an important role. The same engine and gear box in a BMW 3-series might be okay but awful in a car of a 5-series. Here the car itself as a swinging body comes into play. The clutch stands for the strings of a violine and the whole car reflects the body of the violine and represents the resonance body. This is the basis that needs to be understood when developing these oils. Maybe we both have something in common as you work in the acoustics.   

The most difficult task is to find the right chemistry for the clutch performance and the wear protection of the gears as these additives are of contradictional character. And when you switch from the ATFs to the DCTFs this formulation conflict increases exponentially as the level of the requirements for the wear protection climbs up into regions never seen before. Additionally as if all these requirements would not be severe enough our customers have asked for Life Time oils.

VW was on the verge of giving up their project because our competition (big multinational comp.) were not able to develop such a fluid. When they asked me in I had three months to fix it and I was successful. That was our first DCTF generation. The second is our FFL-3 for Porsche and FFL-4 for BMW. We are now working on a fuel economy DCTF that should save 1 to 2% of fuel. That is even more difficult as we have to lower the viscosities into a border line area risking wear.  

I have been working in that area for 25 years by now. After every project I thougt that we had reached the highest performance levels that could not be surpassed. I was always wrong. But I am sure that the big performance steps have been done.          

"

 

As you can read, he was the first guy to ever develop a DCTF fluid for the first production car with a DCT, which was made by VW.


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#17
Tim

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Here for historical interest sake is some of the e-mail discussions I had with Dr. Edgar Steigerwald of Pentosin back in 2008. I don't think he would mind me sharing this. He had asked me what I worked in and had told him it was acoustics:
 
"Before the first DCFT had been developed (FFL-2 for VW) the ATFs had the reputation to be the most difficult oils to be developed. The difficulty here is to find the best compromise of different requirements like e.g. to make the clutch work smoothly without causing shudder, to lubricate the gears without wear, protect the bearings, avoid foam,etc. Shudder is a bad noise. In the first place it is caused by an incompatibility of the friction of the oil and the clutch material. But the body of the car also plays an important role. The same engine and gear box in a BMW 3-series might be okay but awful in a car of a 5-series. Here the car itself as a swinging body comes into play. The clutch stands for the strings of a violine and the whole car reflects the body of the violine and represents the resonance body. This is the basis that needs to be understood when developing these oils. Maybe we both have something in common as you work in the acoustics.   [/size]

The most difficult task is to find the right chemistry for the clutch performance and the wear protection of the gears as these additives are of contradictional character. And when you switch from the ATFs to the DCTFs this formulation conflict increases exponentially as the level of the requirements for the wear protection climbs up into regions never seen before. Additionally as if all these requirements would not be severe enough our customers have asked for Life Time oils.

VW was on the verge of giving up their project because our competition (big multinational comp.) were not able to develop such a fluid. When they asked me in I had three months to fix it and I was successful. That was our first DCTF generation. The second is our FFL-3 for Porsche and FFL-4 for BMW. We are now working on a fuel economy DCTF that should save 1 to 2% of fuel. That is even more difficult as we have to lower the viscosities into a border line area risking wear.  

I have been working in that area for 25 years by now. After every project I thougt that we had reached the highest performance levels that could not be surpassed. I was always wrong. But I am sure that the big performance steps have been done.          
"
 
As you can read, he was the first guy to ever develop a DCTF fluid for the first production car with a DCT, which was made by VW.



And Sir I would like to thank you . You have been a OG owner and long time contributer to the site as well and have helped all of us
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#18
descartesfool

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Thx Tim. That means a lot.


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