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Droptopp’s TSM 4.1 Elite Prime

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#21
Tim

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I’m not putting the blame on anyone but,,,,,,,. This why I’ve alway choose one shop,,,that way there can be no finger pointing .

I just feel really bad for Dave
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#22
droptopp

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The engine that recently was sent back to AMS by "droptopp" had suffered damage from a broken spark plug which was confirmed with a microscope to see the embedded porcelain in the piston. When the engine was sent to him it didn't even have spark plugs in it. Coincidentally when we received it back it didn't have spark plugs in it.

I would be interested to find out who pulled that spark plug out and didn't say anything..

Scott - this is like talking to Martin. Too many fingers in the pot over there and seems like nobody knows what’s going on.

AMS installed the plugs - you shipped me a complete long block !!! Complete. Hell didn’t you build it ?

I even shipped you guys bellhousing so you couldn’t point fingers. And your pointing fingers .... STM dropped it in - that’s all.

Leaked oil from the first start up and had tons of metal in the filter. Was full stop and we sent you the filter for analysis.

Where is the filter I sent ? Where is the analysis?

Didn’t install plugs...... you most certainly did. STM didn’t and it sure ran and leaked all over the place. 1.5qts in less than 150 miles on break in OTS Cobb map, stock injectors and stock midpipe and MAF.

Leaking oil into the piston will drastically contaminate and degrade the fuel wouldn’t it ? Hmmmmm.... which would cause cylinder detonation.

Like I told Martin yesterday send it back to me and I’ll get the analysis done. Why hide it ?

Groundhog Day with you guys. Just drop it and move on.

Sure you have more customers to provide excellent customer service to today today.

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Edited by droptopp, 09 July 2019 - 10:24 AM.

TSM Billet Crank 4.1 w/ CP billet pistons, TSM Elite Prime turbos, TSM Wet Sump Oling upgrade, flex fuel, ETS mid and down pipe, STM titanium axle back, STM race FMIC, ID2000’s, Shep One K with drop gears and all the goodies., DS Axles, Volk Saga 18” 10/12” (MT ET Streets), Advan GT Premium 20” R888. 1450+ hp / 1210+ tq

Old setups : Alpha 9 w/ AMS 3.8, GTX3582R Gen II w/ AMS 4.1 billet crank, GTX3582R Gen II w/ AMS 4.0 big bore billet crank and of course FBO E85.

#23
droptopp

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And Scott@AMS and Martin@AMS stop shitting on this thread or I’ll ask TSM to start shitting on the other one ....
TSM Billet Crank 4.1 w/ CP billet pistons, TSM Elite Prime turbos, TSM Wet Sump Oling upgrade, flex fuel, ETS mid and down pipe, STM titanium axle back, STM race FMIC, ID2000’s, Shep One K with drop gears and all the goodies., DS Axles, Volk Saga 18” 10/12” (MT ET Streets), Advan GT Premium 20” R888. 1450+ hp / 1210+ tq

Old setups : Alpha 9 w/ AMS 3.8, GTX3582R Gen II w/ AMS 4.1 billet crank, GTX3582R Gen II w/ AMS 4.0 big bore billet crank and of course FBO E85.

#24
Scott@AMS

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I was responding to the post asking about if there are any issues with our engine program.

 

One of the big problems here is your posts are full of assumptions and false information.

 

The oil filter that you sent us looked 100% normal for a new engine being broken in. Most of what you see is the ARP lube breaking down.

 

I personally disassembled the engine and here are some facts:

-The bearings all looked perfect.

-The ONLY issue with the engine was from a broken spark plug.

 

You are correct, going over out-bound pictures I sent you the longblock with brand new spark plugs in it. We dont always send them out with spark plugs but in this case we did.



#25
droptopp

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A few minutes ago you stated a blatant lie that you didn’t install plugs, and now admit you did install the plugs. Who is spreading false info?

Just another example of the lack of communication and process control at AMS these days.

Oh and send me that filter so I can see spark plug in it on the first start up. And there was a good deal of metal shavings mixed in with the moly lube. Matter of fact first filter had more metal than moly lube and you were notified of that. With all new lines and filters. Only metal would have come from your build and probably that hacked up rear main.

And for the record, I haven’t even done a vendor review yet. The post you don’t like is the old AMS build thread.

You are commenting on a new build thread that purposefully had no mention of AMS.

So feel free to stay out of this build thread and comment on the one that has factual information and soon the full tear down and bore scopes.
TSM Billet Crank 4.1 w/ CP billet pistons, TSM Elite Prime turbos, TSM Wet Sump Oling upgrade, flex fuel, ETS mid and down pipe, STM titanium axle back, STM race FMIC, ID2000’s, Shep One K with drop gears and all the goodies., DS Axles, Volk Saga 18” 10/12” (MT ET Streets), Advan GT Premium 20” R888. 1450+ hp / 1210+ tq

Old setups : Alpha 9 w/ AMS 3.8, GTX3582R Gen II w/ AMS 4.1 billet crank, GTX3582R Gen II w/ AMS 4.0 big bore billet crank and of course FBO E85.

#26
7secGT-R

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A few minutes ago you stated a blatant lie that you didn’t install plugs, and now admit you did install the plugs. Who is spreading false info?

Just another example of the lack of communication and process control at AMS these days.

Oh and send me that filter so I can see spark plug in it on the first start up. And there was a good deal of metal shavings mixed in with the moly lube. Matter of fact first filter had more metal than moly lube and you were notified of that. With all new lines and filters. Only metal would have come from your build and probably that hacked up rear main.

And for the record, I haven’t even done a vendor review yet. The post you don’t like is the old AMS build thread.

You are commenting on a new build thread that purposefully had no mention of AMS.

So feel free to stay out of this build thread and comment on the one that has factual information and soon the full tear down and bore scopes.

By your reasoning, you just lied too.  That other thread is in VENDOR EXPERIENCES...   much closer to vendor review than a build thread.


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#27
droptopp

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I didn’t put it there lmfao - it’s under my original Alpha 9 build thread where it all is.

The separate AMS build deterrent has a handful of posts and I’m waiting to post the full tear down that was done.

Blah....
TSM Billet Crank 4.1 w/ CP billet pistons, TSM Elite Prime turbos, TSM Wet Sump Oling upgrade, flex fuel, ETS mid and down pipe, STM titanium axle back, STM race FMIC, ID2000’s, Shep One K with drop gears and all the goodies., DS Axles, Volk Saga 18” 10/12” (MT ET Streets), Advan GT Premium 20” R888. 1450+ hp / 1210+ tq

Old setups : Alpha 9 w/ AMS 3.8, GTX3582R Gen II w/ AMS 4.1 billet crank, GTX3582R Gen II w/ AMS 4.0 big bore billet crank and of course FBO E85.

#28
7secGT-R

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Well Scott did not put it there either.  Obviously what Scott said was not a lie.  Obviously what you said was not a lie.

 

The only person lying is the person who ran your car hard enough to destroy the porcelain of a plug, swap the plug out and then continued to run the car till it destroyed the rings and cylinder.  That is the real question here..


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#29
droptopp

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Scott said AMS didn’t install plugs.

And.....

AMS installed plugs ....

The same plugs you posted pictures of .....

That you said someone changed even though #3 is fragmented.

Thanks for making my point.

Edited by droptopp, 09 July 2019 - 12:55 PM.

TSM Billet Crank 4.1 w/ CP billet pistons, TSM Elite Prime turbos, TSM Wet Sump Oling upgrade, flex fuel, ETS mid and down pipe, STM titanium axle back, STM race FMIC, ID2000’s, Shep One K with drop gears and all the goodies., DS Axles, Volk Saga 18” 10/12” (MT ET Streets), Advan GT Premium 20” R888. 1450+ hp / 1210+ tq

Old setups : Alpha 9 w/ AMS 3.8, GTX3582R Gen II w/ AMS 4.1 billet crank, GTX3582R Gen II w/ AMS 4.0 big bore billet crank and of course FBO E85.

#30
droptopp

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I seriously want to know how fast a 3582 with stock plugs, intakes and MAF with a Cobb OTS map would get thrashed lmfao.

I’m thinking a Prius would get more of a thrashing
TSM Billet Crank 4.1 w/ CP billet pistons, TSM Elite Prime turbos, TSM Wet Sump Oling upgrade, flex fuel, ETS mid and down pipe, STM titanium axle back, STM race FMIC, ID2000’s, Shep One K with drop gears and all the goodies., DS Axles, Volk Saga 18” 10/12” (MT ET Streets), Advan GT Premium 20” R888. 1450+ hp / 1210+ tq

Old setups : Alpha 9 w/ AMS 3.8, GTX3582R Gen II w/ AMS 4.1 billet crank, GTX3582R Gen II w/ AMS 4.0 big bore billet crank and of course FBO E85.

#31
7secGT-R

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Scott said AMS didn’t install plugs.

And.....

AMS installed plugs ....

The same plugs you posted pictures of .....

That you said someone changed even though #3 is fragmented.

Thanks for making my point.

 

 

Scott said it did not have spark plugs (as a lot of motors that we ship out).  He was able to go back to the pictures of the motor when it left and see that plugs were installed.  He was mistaken.  No malice was intended.

 

He put a brand new set in the motor before it left.  Somewhere between when he put the spark plugs and when TSM took them out, #3 was broken (obviously while the motor was running) and the replaced it with a new one.  Then they continued to run the rings and cylinder out of it.  None of that could have possibly happened at AMS.  I am confused why you are even arguing this.  It is as clear as day to anyone reading this thread that this is not any fault of AMS.


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#32
7secGT-R

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I seriously want to know how fast a 3582 with stock plugs, intakes and MAF with a Cobb OTS map would get thrashed lmfao.

I’m thinking a Prius would get more of a thrashing

 

You should ask whomever operated your car after you had the motor installed.  We sent out a brand new, never ran motor.  Someone else installed it, beat on it, broke it and tried to cover it up.  It was clearly not AMS.


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#33
droptopp

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Lmfao I’m confused what you are even writing.

Original plugs were removed by TSM and pictured. Are you saying the plugs pictured aren’t the plugs AMS installed ? How many miles do you think are on this. IIRC it was 130.

Four heat cycles and then 130 miles and I was stranded on the side of the road. I pulled it off the lift.

Hell your so concerned, PM and I’ll give you my number and I can explain what was done. Hell even what I was wearing and where I pulled over when it said no oil in the car.

And with regards to processes and process control, maybe I just use common sense as do all of the customers in the industries I work with.

Any motor build (regardless of size) has a serialized build book with process travelers for new, reman or failure analysis. Everything is recorded especially an anomaly. That’s CAT, ALSTOM, Siemens, Bombardier, Talgo, Rolls Royce, GE, etc.

TSM also does this in case your wondering.

No guess work needed.
TSM Billet Crank 4.1 w/ CP billet pistons, TSM Elite Prime turbos, TSM Wet Sump Oling upgrade, flex fuel, ETS mid and down pipe, STM titanium axle back, STM race FMIC, ID2000’s, Shep One K with drop gears and all the goodies., DS Axles, Volk Saga 18” 10/12” (MT ET Streets), Advan GT Premium 20” R888. 1450+ hp / 1210+ tq

Old setups : Alpha 9 w/ AMS 3.8, GTX3582R Gen II w/ AMS 4.1 billet crank, GTX3582R Gen II w/ AMS 4.0 big bore billet crank and of course FBO E85.

#34
droptopp

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You should ask whomever operated your car after you had the motor installed. We sent out a brand new, never ran motor. Someone else installed it, beat on it, broke it and tried to cover it up. It was clearly not AMS.


Never said AMS damaged it - they didn’t need too between the leaking and consumption issues.

With your mindset, who should have paid to remove it to send it back to AMS to address the leaks in the rear main ?

d07114cc09517ef42a2ec6feca6e8c85.jpg
TSM Billet Crank 4.1 w/ CP billet pistons, TSM Elite Prime turbos, TSM Wet Sump Oling upgrade, flex fuel, ETS mid and down pipe, STM titanium axle back, STM race FMIC, ID2000’s, Shep One K with drop gears and all the goodies., DS Axles, Volk Saga 18” 10/12” (MT ET Streets), Advan GT Premium 20” R888. 1450+ hp / 1210+ tq

Old setups : Alpha 9 w/ AMS 3.8, GTX3582R Gen II w/ AMS 4.1 billet crank, GTX3582R Gen II w/ AMS 4.0 big bore billet crank and of course FBO E85.

#35
droptopp

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Give it a rest @7secgtr until the failure analysis comes back from the first heat cycle.

If that is inconclusive, I’ll send you the plugs to be dusted.

Your killing my thumbs.

Edited by droptopp, 09 July 2019 - 01:22 PM.

TSM Billet Crank 4.1 w/ CP billet pistons, TSM Elite Prime turbos, TSM Wet Sump Oling upgrade, flex fuel, ETS mid and down pipe, STM titanium axle back, STM race FMIC, ID2000’s, Shep One K with drop gears and all the goodies., DS Axles, Volk Saga 18” 10/12” (MT ET Streets), Advan GT Premium 20” R888. 1450+ hp / 1210+ tq

Old setups : Alpha 9 w/ AMS 3.8, GTX3582R Gen II w/ AMS 4.1 billet crank, GTX3582R Gen II w/ AMS 4.0 big bore billet crank and of course FBO E85.

#36
7secGT-R

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Lmfao I’m confused what you are even writing.

Original plugs were removed by TSM and pictured. Are you saying the plugs pictured aren’t the plugs AMS installed ? How many miles do you think are on this. IIRC it was 130.

Four heat cycles and then 130 miles and I was stranded on the side of the road. I pulled it off the lift.

Hell your so concerned, PM and I’ll give you my number and I can explain what was done. Hell even what I was wearing and where I pulled over when it said no oil in the car.

And with regards to processes and process control, maybe I just use common sense as do all of the customers in the industries I work with.

Any motor build (regardless of size) has a serialized build book with process travelers for new, reman or failure analysis. Everything is recorded especially an anomaly. That’s CAT, ALSTOM, Siemens, Bombardier, Talgo, Rolls Royce, GE, etc.

TSM also does this in case your wondering.

No guess work needed.

 

I am confused?  Where did the porcelain come from that is embedded in the piston and head?  As Tony asked..  "Did AMS break up a spark plug, put it in the motor and then turn it over and over and over?"  LOL..  obviously not.

 

Someone beat on the car, broke a spark plug, swapped it out and tried to pull a fast one on you.  It is OBVIOUS to everyone reading this.  Arguing anything else is just plain silly.


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#37
droptopp

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Funny I was thinking the exact same thing.
TSM Billet Crank 4.1 w/ CP billet pistons, TSM Elite Prime turbos, TSM Wet Sump Oling upgrade, flex fuel, ETS mid and down pipe, STM titanium axle back, STM race FMIC, ID2000’s, Shep One K with drop gears and all the goodies., DS Axles, Volk Saga 18” 10/12” (MT ET Streets), Advan GT Premium 20” R888. 1450+ hp / 1210+ tq

Old setups : Alpha 9 w/ AMS 3.8, GTX3582R Gen II w/ AMS 4.1 billet crank, GTX3582R Gen II w/ AMS 4.0 big bore billet crank and of course FBO E85.

#38
7secGT-R

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Funny I was thinking the exact same thing.

 

Occam's razor....

 

Occam's razor is the problem-solving principle that the simplest solution tends to be the right one. When presented with competing hypotheses to solve a problem, one should select the solution with the fewest assumptions.

 

Is it easier to assume that someone blew up a car on 35R turbos with stock injectors.....   or that AMS broke a spark plug, inserted into a pissed off customer's motor, turned it over a bunch of times to F the motor up nice and good, inserted a new spark plug in it and shipped it to the customer?

 

This question answers itself.


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  • World's First Nissan R35 GT-R in the 9's, 8's AND THE 7's!!!!!!!
  • 2014 & 2015 TSS Texas Invitational King of the Streets Back to Back Champ - ALPHA OMEGA

#39
droptopp

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Lol no need to explain problem solving to me. Well versed with systematic problems solving as a six sigma black belt in a previous life. As I’m sure you are aware, Occam’s razor should not be used in the place of logic, scientific methods and personal insights. In the long term, a judgment must be backed by empirical evidence, not just its simplicity.

Hence my request for testing the filter and why I assumed Martin was and did 4 moths ago as he told me he would.

Interesting with all the slag, metal and molylube in the filter on turn over, have no idea what was in that block. With new lines, oil cooler and fresh parts, didn’t come from anything that AMS didn’t ship it with.

The fact we were uncomfortable with the amount of metal and pieces in the the first heat cycle says something.

Couple that with the leaks and motor had to come out.

Simple facts and common logic - shop didn’t even want to install the motor this time around let alone tune it as evidenced by multiple emails, calls and texts to Martin
TSM Billet Crank 4.1 w/ CP billet pistons, TSM Elite Prime turbos, TSM Wet Sump Oling upgrade, flex fuel, ETS mid and down pipe, STM titanium axle back, STM race FMIC, ID2000’s, Shep One K with drop gears and all the goodies., DS Axles, Volk Saga 18” 10/12” (MT ET Streets), Advan GT Premium 20” R888. 1450+ hp / 1210+ tq

Old setups : Alpha 9 w/ AMS 3.8, GTX3582R Gen II w/ AMS 4.1 billet crank, GTX3582R Gen II w/ AMS 4.0 big bore billet crank and of course FBO E85.

#40
7secGT-R

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 As I’m sure you are aware, Occam’s razor should not be used in the place of logic, scientific methods and personal insights. In the long term, a judgment must be backed by empirical evidence, not just its simplicity.
 

 

Yes..  logic is severely lacking in your threads.

 

The bearings in this motor are in great condition.  The oil filter did exactly what it was supposed to do and filtered out all the damaging debris out of the oil.  Even the cylinder wall and rings that were being eaten away after whomever blew your motor up kept running it after tying to hide it by replacing the spark plug.


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  • World's First Nissan R35 GT-R in the 9's, 8's AND THE 7's!!!!!!!
  • 2014 & 2015 TSS Texas Invitational King of the Streets Back to Back Champ - ALPHA OMEGA




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