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Droptopp Alpha 9 3.8 / 4.1 / 4.0 AMS Engines


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#21
droptopp

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Get it right by demanding my entire car to do so ?
Cicio Performance billet Crank 4.1 w/ CP billet pistons, Zenith R turbos, Cicio wet sump oling upgrade, flex fuel, ETS mid, down pipe, race FMIC, STM titanium axle back, ID2000s, Shep One K with drop gears, DS Axles, Volk Saga 18 10/12 (MT ET Streets), Advan GT Premium 20 R888. 1450+ hp / 1210+ tq

Old setups : more AMS motors than anyone I know - Alpha 9 w/ AMS 3.8, GTX3582R Gen II w/ AMS 4.1 billet crank, GTX3582R Gen II w/ AMS 4.0 big bore billet crank and of course FBO E85.

#22
droptopp

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Martin, should have spent the time to make sure motor #3 was done right.

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Cicio Performance billet Crank 4.1 w/ CP billet pistons, Zenith R turbos, Cicio wet sump oling upgrade, flex fuel, ETS mid, down pipe, race FMIC, STM titanium axle back, ID2000s, Shep One K with drop gears, DS Axles, Volk Saga 18 10/12 (MT ET Streets), Advan GT Premium 20 R888. 1450+ hp / 1210+ tq

Old setups : more AMS motors than anyone I know - Alpha 9 w/ AMS 3.8, GTX3582R Gen II w/ AMS 4.1 billet crank, GTX3582R Gen II w/ AMS 4.0 big bore billet crank and of course FBO E85.

#23
droptopp

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Martin - unbeknownst you and AMS I upgraded turbos ? Careful.

Invoice 98131 07/21/17 from AMS quoted 12x kit with billet crank, 4.1, etc.

I was full pay and had no issues - your engine builder did not upgrade cams ? I even stopped out to the shop while visiting my son at college and had the discussion with Serge.

I told Serge I would use another 35R kit out there because the 12x had such a poor spool compared to others on the market.

This is why people don’t bother even commenting on this nonsense and bringing it to light.

Not worth the waste of time.

Just empty promises and an oil leaker.

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Edited by droptopp, 22 April 2019 - 06:44 PM.

Cicio Performance billet Crank 4.1 w/ CP billet pistons, Zenith R turbos, Cicio wet sump oling upgrade, flex fuel, ETS mid, down pipe, race FMIC, STM titanium axle back, ID2000s, Shep One K with drop gears, DS Axles, Volk Saga 18 10/12 (MT ET Streets), Advan GT Premium 20 R888. 1450+ hp / 1210+ tq

Old setups : more AMS motors than anyone I know - Alpha 9 w/ AMS 3.8, GTX3582R Gen II w/ AMS 4.1 billet crank, GTX3582R Gen II w/ AMS 4.0 big bore billet crank and of course FBO E85.

#24
droptopp

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Failure on the 4.1 was 3rd gear WOT for about 3 seconds - Cobb autoshift at 7500rpm - came off and in decel a few seconds later - motor made horrendous sound.

The 4.1 always smelled like oil. Multiple emails and I was told it’s simply the introduction of the Air Oil separator by AMS.
Cicio Performance billet Crank 4.1 w/ CP billet pistons, Zenith R turbos, Cicio wet sump oling upgrade, flex fuel, ETS mid, down pipe, race FMIC, STM titanium axle back, ID2000s, Shep One K with drop gears, DS Axles, Volk Saga 18 10/12 (MT ET Streets), Advan GT Premium 20 R888. 1450+ hp / 1210+ tq

Old setups : more AMS motors than anyone I know - Alpha 9 w/ AMS 3.8, GTX3582R Gen II w/ AMS 4.1 billet crank, GTX3582R Gen II w/ AMS 4.0 big bore billet crank and of course FBO E85.

#25
droptopp

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Edited by droptopp, 22 April 2019 - 07:04 PM.

Cicio Performance billet Crank 4.1 w/ CP billet pistons, Zenith R turbos, Cicio wet sump oling upgrade, flex fuel, ETS mid, down pipe, race FMIC, STM titanium axle back, ID2000s, Shep One K with drop gears, DS Axles, Volk Saga 18 10/12 (MT ET Streets), Advan GT Premium 20 R888. 1450+ hp / 1210+ tq

Old setups : more AMS motors than anyone I know - Alpha 9 w/ AMS 3.8, GTX3582R Gen II w/ AMS 4.1 billet crank, GTX3582R Gen II w/ AMS 4.0 big bore billet crank and of course FBO E85.

#26
droptopp

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Martin - you never answered the first question in the email I sent to you a few times since last we spoke.

Do you want the block back with the billet steel main cpas and larger ARP main studs which is leaking oil ? I would caution against whatever modifications to the mid pan you made for horizontal bolting surfaces moving forward.

Keep the money - as I have always laid out could care less. I just didn’t want the downtime.

If you do, I’ll have it shipped to you at no cost !!

I just want the block and Bryant crank I paid for more than once.

AMS sure has turned into a really big disappointment !!!

Omega - what ?

Edited by droptopp, 22 April 2019 - 07:15 PM.

Cicio Performance billet Crank 4.1 w/ CP billet pistons, Zenith R turbos, Cicio wet sump oling upgrade, flex fuel, ETS mid, down pipe, race FMIC, STM titanium axle back, ID2000s, Shep One K with drop gears, DS Axles, Volk Saga 18 10/12 (MT ET Streets), Advan GT Premium 20 R888. 1450+ hp / 1210+ tq

Old setups : more AMS motors than anyone I know - Alpha 9 w/ AMS 3.8, GTX3582R Gen II w/ AMS 4.1 billet crank, GTX3582R Gen II w/ AMS 4.0 big bore billet crank and of course FBO E85.

#27
droptopp

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I love the “we are doing all the work and covering all the expenses” comment.

Like how TONE DEAF can you be ????

“Let ya make it right” - what about the $50k+ and two years of nonsense of not having a car so I can rep that Alpha badge?

Should have gotten #3 correct.

All my emails and phone calls have a common thread - do whatever you stand behind.

AMS did and now won’t stand behind it. Want to hold the car hostage.

Maybe I had Stockholm syndrome to even let it get to this point.

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Edited by droptopp, 22 April 2019 - 07:51 PM.

Cicio Performance billet Crank 4.1 w/ CP billet pistons, Zenith R turbos, Cicio wet sump oling upgrade, flex fuel, ETS mid, down pipe, race FMIC, STM titanium axle back, ID2000s, Shep One K with drop gears, DS Axles, Volk Saga 18 10/12 (MT ET Streets), Advan GT Premium 20 R888. 1450+ hp / 1210+ tq

Old setups : more AMS motors than anyone I know - Alpha 9 w/ AMS 3.8, GTX3582R Gen II w/ AMS 4.1 billet crank, GTX3582R Gen II w/ AMS 4.0 big bore billet crank and of course FBO E85.

#28
droptopp

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Martin how low can you go ? I asked you three different times if you wanted to tune the car and / or review the tune or data logs.

You had no concerns...... stop with the blame game

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Cicio Performance billet Crank 4.1 w/ CP billet pistons, Zenith R turbos, Cicio wet sump oling upgrade, flex fuel, ETS mid, down pipe, race FMIC, STM titanium axle back, ID2000s, Shep One K with drop gears, DS Axles, Volk Saga 18 10/12 (MT ET Streets), Advan GT Premium 20 R888. 1450+ hp / 1210+ tq

Old setups : more AMS motors than anyone I know - Alpha 9 w/ AMS 3.8, GTX3582R Gen II w/ AMS 4.1 billet crank, GTX3582R Gen II w/ AMS 4.0 big bore billet crank and of course FBO E85.

#29
Martin@amsperformance

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AMS built the 4.1 stroker with billet crank and put used Alpha 9 cams back into the motor.

No quality or process control - multiple emails, calls and texts knowing 1200+ hp goals with 35 series turbos being used and they put a set of used cams in the engine.

When I am scratching my head and asking why the motor is flat lining at 7200 nobody knows.

Well luckily AMS admitted the wrong cams were used but still charged me for their oiling issues and to build a third motor.

Then when they shipped the motor they kept new parts that were stamped and not returned.

Oversight - maybe, probably but shouldn’t have happened on motor -#3.

 

Hi David,

 

We left the same cams in your engine that were already in it, that is a far cry from saying 'we put used ALpha 9 cams into your motor'.  That is implying we sold you cam (which we didn't)  and installed used cams instead.

 

Any why did we leave those camshafts in?  You had us quote you an A12 turbo kit and in an email you said no, you were worried about the lag of the big turbo's and would stay with something smaller and quick spooling.  How were we supposed to know you were going bigger?  

 

I didn't admit the wrong cams were used.  When you told me that the the 4.1L was on GTX3582 turbo's I told you that you really have the wrong cams in there for that. That is when you got upset and asked why those were in there, why would we do that to you and no wonder it wasn't pulling up top.  I checked back through emails and found where you told Serge that you were afraid of the lag of big turbo's and were probably going to stay A9.   Then I informed you of that and said that I would still upgrade you to a set of more appropriate cams for FREE for the issues you were going through.  

 

We kept new parts that were stamped and not returned? what? can you please elaborate?  Or are you referring to the bellhousing and flex plate that was in a seperate box and my shippers missed it.  They asked a week later who's this was and STM called asking if we still had those, we shipped it our promptly.


Martin Musial
President  - AMS Performance - Alpha Performance
 
ams_email_signature.png
 

 


#30
droptopp

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And you wonder why I didn’t ship the car back to you.

1. The Alpha 9 cams were in the 3.8 - they were used - didn’t say you sold me used A9 cams - said you put used A9 cams in the 4.1 - which you did and admit that you did. Which was stupidity based on the turbo choice.

2. Serge was told multiple times and even in person I was going for a 12x power level - said alpha cams which you later put in the 4.0 which is now leaking and burning oil on break in.

Your comment you didn’t know is ridiculous if you read the attached email from Serge. Your builder should have thrown up flags reusing A9 cams for a A12x. What kind of ship do you run Martin ?

Motor is headed back and you just assembled the 12x kit ......

Ahhhh I didn’t know .... come on just stop wasting my time.

It’s comical at this point.

The effort you are putting into trying to spin facts should have gone into building a motor that isn’t complete crap.

I’ll make sure to get the tear down posted up for you.

Man what happens to AMS .... downright sad.

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Edited by droptopp, 23 April 2019 - 12:12 AM.

Cicio Performance billet Crank 4.1 w/ CP billet pistons, Zenith R turbos, Cicio wet sump oling upgrade, flex fuel, ETS mid, down pipe, race FMIC, STM titanium axle back, ID2000s, Shep One K with drop gears, DS Axles, Volk Saga 18 10/12 (MT ET Streets), Advan GT Premium 20 R888. 1450+ hp / 1210+ tq

Old setups : more AMS motors than anyone I know - Alpha 9 w/ AMS 3.8, GTX3582R Gen II w/ AMS 4.1 billet crank, GTX3582R Gen II w/ AMS 4.0 big bore billet crank and of course FBO E85.

#31
droptopp

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https://youtu.be/smYjQ8yAscA
Cicio Performance billet Crank 4.1 w/ CP billet pistons, Zenith R turbos, Cicio wet sump oling upgrade, flex fuel, ETS mid, down pipe, race FMIC, STM titanium axle back, ID2000s, Shep One K with drop gears, DS Axles, Volk Saga 18 10/12 (MT ET Streets), Advan GT Premium 20 R888. 1450+ hp / 1210+ tq

Old setups : more AMS motors than anyone I know - Alpha 9 w/ AMS 3.8, GTX3582R Gen II w/ AMS 4.1 billet crank, GTX3582R Gen II w/ AMS 4.0 big bore billet crank and of course FBO E85.

#32
droptopp

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Also appreciate you finding the components that didn’t ship back with the long block - after I emailed you guys for it.

Imagine if I let it sit for three months and wait for the thaw (which I planned to do)

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Edited by droptopp, 23 April 2019 - 12:42 AM.

Cicio Performance billet Crank 4.1 w/ CP billet pistons, Zenith R turbos, Cicio wet sump oling upgrade, flex fuel, ETS mid, down pipe, race FMIC, STM titanium axle back, ID2000s, Shep One K with drop gears, DS Axles, Volk Saga 18 10/12 (MT ET Streets), Advan GT Premium 20 R888. 1450+ hp / 1210+ tq

Old setups : more AMS motors than anyone I know - Alpha 9 w/ AMS 3.8, GTX3582R Gen II w/ AMS 4.1 billet crank, GTX3582R Gen II w/ AMS 4.0 big bore billet crank and of course FBO E85.

#33
droptopp

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And the guarantee to stand behind the 3rd motor which, I am now finding out, is not factual.

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Edited by droptopp, 23 April 2019 - 12:46 AM.

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Cicio Performance billet Crank 4.1 w/ CP billet pistons, Zenith R turbos, Cicio wet sump oling upgrade, flex fuel, ETS mid, down pipe, race FMIC, STM titanium axle back, ID2000s, Shep One K with drop gears, DS Axles, Volk Saga 18 10/12 (MT ET Streets), Advan GT Premium 20 R888. 1450+ hp / 1210+ tq

Old setups : more AMS motors than anyone I know - Alpha 9 w/ AMS 3.8, GTX3582R Gen II w/ AMS 4.1 billet crank, GTX3582R Gen II w/ AMS 4.0 big bore billet crank and of course FBO E85.

#34
droptopp

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Martin/Dan you have mail

ddd2669f0fb32343ae579bc7af6b4f76.jpg
Cicio Performance billet Crank 4.1 w/ CP billet pistons, Zenith R turbos, Cicio wet sump oling upgrade, flex fuel, ETS mid, down pipe, race FMIC, STM titanium axle back, ID2000s, Shep One K with drop gears, DS Axles, Volk Saga 18 10/12 (MT ET Streets), Advan GT Premium 20 R888. 1450+ hp / 1210+ tq

Old setups : more AMS motors than anyone I know - Alpha 9 w/ AMS 3.8, GTX3582R Gen II w/ AMS 4.1 billet crank, GTX3582R Gen II w/ AMS 4.0 big bore billet crank and of course FBO E85.

#35
CasualObserver

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And the guarantee to stand behind the 3rd motor which, I am now finding out, is not factual.

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Didn't you just say that you refused his offer to take your car to AMS on their dime to ensure that everything from install to tune is done right?  How is that not standing behind their build?

 

I still don't understand why a turbo went with one of the failures, that suggests an oiling issues.

 

Some of this makes no sense at least to me.  If they had a %100 failure rate on engine builds I think you would hear about it elsewhere.  Unless there is a tinfoil hat conspiracy and they are going after you, it makes no sense.  How are you so sure it is them causing failures every time?  You seem convinced that they are the only possible cause.  Why is this?

 

Also, aren't you the same person who complained of the car Laying stripes and then complained of tire wear and considered asking the tire rep to warranty them?

 

I guess I shouldn't worry so much about this, but I have had a much different experience.  One with years, thousands of street miles and stacks of seven second passes over multiple events on one motor.  This just doesn't seem to make sense or be consistent with the experiences I have had.



#36
droptopp

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Combine enough comments without facts and hell I am a demigod and responsible for global warming, starting to sound like Martin.

Long post on why I didn’t send them the motor for a fourth time. Recall the definition of insanity ??? Sure if AMS wanted to do it right they would have.

Laying strips was from an ETS issue.

Hazing from the tires was either caused from using on the dyno or due to the durometer of the rubber which has a recall from the early molds. Known fact and have had them replaced on my Hellcat twice now because they crack all the way around the tire as well as hazing. Pictures attached.

Your right it has oiling issues - called blow-by why the 4.1 grenaded on decel.

Did I miss anything ?

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Edited by droptopp, 23 April 2019 - 07:55 AM.

Cicio Performance billet Crank 4.1 w/ CP billet pistons, Zenith R turbos, Cicio wet sump oling upgrade, flex fuel, ETS mid, down pipe, race FMIC, STM titanium axle back, ID2000s, Shep One K with drop gears, DS Axles, Volk Saga 18 10/12 (MT ET Streets), Advan GT Premium 20 R888. 1450+ hp / 1210+ tq

Old setups : more AMS motors than anyone I know - Alpha 9 w/ AMS 3.8, GTX3582R Gen II w/ AMS 4.1 billet crank, GTX3582R Gen II w/ AMS 4.0 big bore billet crank and of course FBO E85.

#37
droptopp

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You do understand I only asked for a fraction of the actual cost so I could buy a block and crank if it’s needed, which I have paid for multiple times and Martin said no. Said he needs the whole car ?

Whole car so I can be that dude that not only went through motor issues but now doesn’t even have the car ?

Hell they built this motor they know what could be the issues. How about the fact whatever they did to the “girdle” was a one-off.

I’m betting they don’t do that again ....

I’m sure whoever gets the car won’t have an issue with stating facts, as I have.

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Edited by droptopp, 23 April 2019 - 09:44 AM.

Cicio Performance billet Crank 4.1 w/ CP billet pistons, Zenith R turbos, Cicio wet sump oling upgrade, flex fuel, ETS mid, down pipe, race FMIC, STM titanium axle back, ID2000s, Shep One K with drop gears, DS Axles, Volk Saga 18 10/12 (MT ET Streets), Advan GT Premium 20 R888. 1450+ hp / 1210+ tq

Old setups : more AMS motors than anyone I know - Alpha 9 w/ AMS 3.8, GTX3582R Gen II w/ AMS 4.1 billet crank, GTX3582R Gen II w/ AMS 4.0 big bore billet crank and of course FBO E85.

#38
CasualObserver

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It just seems that you aren’t interested in knowing what is causing repeated failures. A turbo and motor going simultaneously should raise some questions.

There are many things that can cause a new engine to go tits up. You seem to only want to blame one of many possible causes. What have you done to rule out other possible causes?

They have a pretty good track record on motor builds. The chances of three one after the other being bad seems odd. That’s all I’m saying. Throw in a turbo failure with it and big questions on oiling/oil level are raised. Instead of addressing said questions you just respond with AMS is bad.

What happens if someone else’s motor fails? Who gets blamed then. You use the term “definition of insanity” when referring to AMS’ engines. There are other variables in this build that have been consistent the whole way through.

We have different points of view in this. I find 3 consecutive bad motors to be hard to believe based on personal experience as well as the experiences of others (whom I can’t count on one hand) all running their engines. That’s all; just trying to make sense of this. I’ve gone 7.0 multiple times on one short block and my oil filters have never looked like that.

Do you think they cherry pick the bad motors and send them to you?

If I were in your shoes I’d take the no cost option to get the car made right, then you can hold them accountable table for every variable in the process of it doesn’t work out. Instead you paid forward with the same path out of your pocket and hope you were right that they shipped you three consecutive bad engines. I really do wish you luck. It sounds like they would have been better off telling no warranty and to go pound sand after the first engine made it several thousand mikes and a multitude of 60-130 pills etc. Instead they are trying to help you and you are here to cause maximum damage. None of this makes any sense to me.

Edited by CasualObserver, 23 April 2019 - 08:36 AM.

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#39
droptopp

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Therein lies the issue. Sure I want to know, AMS telling me bearings isn’t what caused the 4.1 motor to fail. AMS building another 4.0!motor and shipping it to me only eats more time and cost. No root cause or failure analysis.

Shipping them the car only locks me into their story. Think if they have a design flaw they are going to state that? Or even fix it if they don’t know they have it?

Sending it somewhere else, albeit more expensive allows me an independent third party evaluation.

And to be absolutely crystal clear I didn’t ask for this. I didn’t ask for a single thing from the first 3.8. I was the biggest fanboy and happy with the performance. Short lived, but pay to play.

The 4.1 shit the bed after 500 break in, 200 for inspection so 700 +/- with no boost and stock injectors, 300+/- miles at 987 awhp and 150 +/-miles at 1136.

I’m only asking for a block and crank from the 4.0 since it’s leaking and my long block components.

Fuck dude - that’s more than fair and what should be expected.

First heat cycle with that filter and those large particles made us keep an eye on it. Then it leaked and burned 2 quarts with oil leaking from the timing chain area, rear main, girdle, pan, etc.

That’s when I pulled plug and in the bad guy. Lol.

Sometimes shops can do no wrong in people’s eyes. Glad yours works great but it’s obvious 7.0 is completely different than driving hours to the track or putzing around to get lunch and doing a few pulls.

And please stop with conspiracy theories - I just have shit luck.
Cicio Performance billet Crank 4.1 w/ CP billet pistons, Zenith R turbos, Cicio wet sump oling upgrade, flex fuel, ETS mid, down pipe, race FMIC, STM titanium axle back, ID2000s, Shep One K with drop gears, DS Axles, Volk Saga 18 10/12 (MT ET Streets), Advan GT Premium 20 R888. 1450+ hp / 1210+ tq

Old setups : more AMS motors than anyone I know - Alpha 9 w/ AMS 3.8, GTX3582R Gen II w/ AMS 4.1 billet crank, GTX3582R Gen II w/ AMS 4.0 big bore billet crank and of course FBO E85.

#40
CasualObserver

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No conspiracy theory here, I’m just wondering why you are so convinced as to the cause?

And you are right, my usage scenario was totally different, thousands of street miles and low seven second passes is much harder on an engine. If they had no idea what they are doing or have “design flaws” I don’t think it would have made it that far. Go look at the last couple of GT-R race events and see how things went for them. Ask yourself if thy shows fundamental inability to build an engine. I wish you the best of luck, I really do.




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