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Any documented cases of stock crankshaft failure?

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37 replies to this topic

#21
Turbotuner20v

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It's interesting to hear some of the feedback in this thread conflicting with this thread - http://www.gtrherita...r-engine-build/

 

I was looking to send Tim my current damaged Buschur Racing longblock I inherited w/ the built car (pre-ignition in cyl 6 - 99psi compression/66% leakdown) and have him rebuild with the following parts and send me a full longblock back.  This seemed more reliable than buying a shortblock from the vendors above and installing the heads myself since the motor would have 1 set of hands in it.  

 

Inspect/freshen/reuse heads with Tomei 272 cams

Inspect/reuse stock crankshaft

Inspect/reuse ARP main studs

New VR38 block

Wiseco pistons w/ .250 pin (currently JE 10.5:1 pistons)

Manley 300m rods (currently Manley standard turbo tuff rods)

Nissan rod & main bearings. (not OEM sizing)

ARP 625 head stud kit 

 

I've been a DIY guy for years across multiple platforms including 1,000whp+ LS stuff (kind of how I got connected with Tim).  So I need a DIY friendly shop who can handle the complex precision parts of the build (i.e. engine/trans) and I can do the remainder.  I bought the car already built by Buschur so this overhaul will be my opportunity to address things that may not have been done per the original owner's power goals/available fuel/budget, etc.

 

I would love to ship the car to TSM with a very large check and get a turn key 200mph car back, but that doesn't really align with how I enjoy this hobby.  I do want to work with TSM to purchase their Elite+ kit though and any supporting items that could make my build more successful.

 

 

JBdV0pWl.jpg

WYy0pxMl.jpg

mJ2kbNpl.jpg

8Ajddv3l.jpg

fSNzw6nl.jpg

ZI6LeNhl.jpg


Edited by Turbotuner20v, 22 March 2018 - 09:50 AM.


#22
Cicio@TSM

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It's interesting to hear some of the feedback in this thread conflicting with this thread - http://www.gtrherita...r-engine-build/

 

I was looking to send Tim my current damaged Buschur Racing longblock I inherited w/ the built car (pre-ignition in cyl 6 - 99psi compression/66% leakdown) and have him rebuild with the following parts and send me a full longblock back.  This seemed more reliable than buying a shortblock from the vendors above and installing the heads myself since the motor would have 1 set of hands in it.  

 

Inspect/freshen/reuse heads with Tomei 272 cams

Inspect/reuse stock crankshaft

Inspect/reuse ARP main studs

New VR38 block

Wiseco pistons w/ .250 pin (currently JE 10.5:1 pistons)

Manley 300m rods (currently Manley standard turbo tuff rods)

Nissan rod & main bearings. (not OEM sizing)

ARP 625 head stud kit 

 

I've been a DIY guy for years across multiple platforms including 1,000whp+ LS stuff (kind of how I got connected with Tim).  So I need a DIY friendly shop who can handle the complex precision parts of the build (i.e. engine/trans) and I can do the remainder.  I bought the car already built by Buschur so this overhaul will be my opportunity to address things that may not have been done per the original owner's power goals/available fuel/budget, etc.

 

I would love to ship the car to TSM with a very large check and get a turn key 200mph car back, but that doesn't really align with how I enjoy this hobby.  I do want to work with TSM to purchase their Elite+ kit though and any supporting items that could make my build more successful.

 

 

JBdV0pWl.jpg

WYy0pxMl.jpg

mJ2kbNpl.jpg

8Ajddv3l.jpg

fSNzw6nl.jpg

ZI6LeNhl.jpg

 

 

 

We build long blocks and ship them literally weekly.  I have three of them here right now being built.   I don't need to build your entire car to help, I can assemble the long block for you and ship it back. 

 

 

I will however give you some free advise.  Your block was likely the issue.  Very few people have the tools to actually measure the depth and consistency of the cross hatching in the plasma liners, but we do... and I know from inspecting lots of engines by that builder that likely the honing process is what caused your issue. 

 

 

 

Happy to help if I can sir, feel free to email me.   We would love to see you enjoy our turbos to the fullest! 


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~Cicio
 
***TOP THREE TSM 1/4 MILE***
-7.37 & 198
-7.47@194
-7.59@189
***TOP THREE TSM 1/2 MILE***
-225.9 MPH
-221.3 MPH
-219.5 MPH

-OneLap of America Overall 1st Place - 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013
-TX2K13 Overall 1st Place | TX2K13 Class 2 1st Place
-Shootout 2015 Overall 1st Place & 2nd Place
-TX2K15 Class 4 2nd Place | TX2K15 Roll Race 1st Place SS
-FL2K 2015 Overall 1st Place
-TSM ELITE Plus Stock Frames @ 7.98@169
-Standing Half Mile Stock Frame Turbo Record @ 209 TSM ELITE

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Call: 678-297-7770
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#23
Turbotuner20v

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We build long blocks and ship them literally weekly.  I have three of them here right now being built.   I don't need to build your entire car to help, I can assemble the long block for you and ship it back. 

 

 

I will however give you some free advise.  Your block was likely the issue.  Very few people have the tools to actually measure the depth and consistency of the cross hatching in the plasma liners, but we do... and I know from inspecting lots of engines by that builder that likely the honing process is what caused your issue. 

 

 

 

Happy to help if I can sir, feel free to email me.   We would love to see you enjoy our turbos to the fullest! 

 

Thanks! I just put the order in on the elite+

 

It's interesting to hear you guys have had a few Buschur motors through.  These were my results for the rest of the motor:

 

 

Compression & leak down:

1) 135psi / 5%

2) 145psi / 13%

3) 140psi / 10%

4) 133psi / 23%

5) 133psi / 5%

6) 99psi / 66%



#24
Doug@WGP

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Thanks! I just put the order in on the elite+

It's interesting to hear you guys have had a few Buschur motors through. These were my results for the rest of the motor:


Compression & leak down:
1) 135psi / 5%
2) 145psi / 13%
3) 140psi / 10%
4) 133psi / 23%
5) 133psi / 5%
6) 99psi / 66%



Sounds like 2,3 and 4 are f’d too :(. (But in the heads)

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#25
Maniphanh

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Thanks! I just put the order in on the elite+

It's interesting to hear you guys have had a few Buschur motors through. These were my results for the rest of the motor:


Compression & leak down:
1) 135psi / 5%
2) 145psi / 13%
3) 140psi / 10%
4) 133psi / 23%
5) 133psi / 5%
6) 99psi / 66%


Just curious why not BL1200X?

#26
Turbotuner20v

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Just curious why not BL1200X?


I just appreciate Cicio/tsm's engagement on the forum and at events. If I were going to pay a shop to build my car I'd pick them. Since I'm building it, I at least want to use their proven parts.
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#27
Maniphanh

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I just appreciate Cicio/tsm's engagement on the forum and at events. If I were going to pay a shop to build my car I'd pick them. Since I'm building it, I at least want to use their proven parts.


That’s fair enough

#28
Neil Switzer

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If you have to hone or deglaze the block this is a perfect case in point of why we have told people to spend the few grand on a brand new block. You don't get to make your machine shop any money but it's the right thing to do.

Fresh crank in that case is almost always needed as well.
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#29
Turbotuner20v

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If you have to hone or deglaze the block this is a perfect case in point of why we have told people to spend the few grand on a brand new block. You don't get to make your machine shop any money but it's the right thing to do.

Fresh crank in that case is almost always needed as well.

I'm going to check the block VIN later.  I'm curious if it was a higher mileage core that they also honed too much.

 

The car is a '14 and only has 8,700 miles on it

 

Is the crank damaged to the point that it's visually noticeable upon removal or during magnaflux?



#30
Neil Switzer

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I'm going to check the block VIN later.  I'm curious if it was a higher mileage core that they also honed too much.

 

The car is a '14 and only has 8,700 miles on it

 

Is the crank damaged to the point that it's visually noticeable upon removal or during magnaflux?

 

Visual would be your first check of course. I've seen them come out of cars with 34 miles on them with abnormal wear from poor bearing fitment, so you sometimes don't know until you get in there. Some can be cleaned up and used without issue, others need replaced. 


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#31
Zilla

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Visual would be your first check of course. I've seen them come out of cars with 34 miles on them with abnormal wear from poor bearing fitment, so you sometimes don't know until you get in there. Some can be cleaned up and used without issue, others need replaced.


Neil, Wouldn’t a magnaflux inspection answer that question?

#32
Neil Switzer

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Neil, Wouldn’t a magnaflux inspection answer that question?

 

Absolutely, I'm saying that when it fails a visual examination (deep scratches, scoring, etc) there's no reason to magnaflux it, get a new one. Cheap insurance. 


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#33
Cicio@TSM

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We mag EVERY single stock and aftermarket crank before it goes in an engine.  We have the equipment to do it in house it's so important.  

 

Pretty obvious that if a bearing failure ruined the crank that it's trash... but 99% of cracks you will NOT see without a mag check.  


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~Cicio
 
***TOP THREE TSM 1/4 MILE***
-7.37 & 198
-7.47@194
-7.59@189
***TOP THREE TSM 1/2 MILE***
-225.9 MPH
-221.3 MPH
-219.5 MPH

-OneLap of America Overall 1st Place - 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013
-TX2K13 Overall 1st Place | TX2K13 Class 2 1st Place
-Shootout 2015 Overall 1st Place & 2nd Place
-TX2K15 Class 4 2nd Place | TX2K15 Roll Race 1st Place SS
-FL2K 2015 Overall 1st Place
-TSM ELITE Plus Stock Frames @ 7.98@169
-Standing Half Mile Stock Frame Turbo Record @ 209 TSM ELITE

TopSpeedForumGTR.jpg
Call: 678-297-7770
cicio@topspeedmotorsports.com
TopSpeedMotorsports.com
**AWD Dyno Tuning
**Parts, Sales, Service


#34
Cicio@TSM

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I just appreciate Cicio/tsm's engagement on the forum and at events. If I were going to pay a shop to build my car I'd pick them. Since I'm building it, I at least want to use their proven parts.

 

 

Thank you for this!  


  • Tim, celsius and 7racer like this

~Cicio
 
***TOP THREE TSM 1/4 MILE***
-7.37 & 198
-7.47@194
-7.59@189
***TOP THREE TSM 1/2 MILE***
-225.9 MPH
-221.3 MPH
-219.5 MPH

-OneLap of America Overall 1st Place - 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013
-TX2K13 Overall 1st Place | TX2K13 Class 2 1st Place
-Shootout 2015 Overall 1st Place & 2nd Place
-TX2K15 Class 4 2nd Place | TX2K15 Roll Race 1st Place SS
-FL2K 2015 Overall 1st Place
-TSM ELITE Plus Stock Frames @ 7.98@169
-Standing Half Mile Stock Frame Turbo Record @ 209 TSM ELITE

TopSpeedForumGTR.jpg
Call: 678-297-7770
cicio@topspeedmotorsports.com
TopSpeedMotorsports.com
**AWD Dyno Tuning
**Parts, Sales, Service


#35
Cicio@TSM

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I'm going to check the block VIN later.  I'm curious if it was a higher mileage core that they also honed too much.

 

The car is a '14 and only has 8,700 miles on it

 

Is the crank damaged to the point that it's visually noticeable upon removal or during magnaflux?

 

 

There is only ONE way to hone these blocks.. trust me I have tried it all.. none of it works.  You won't see the oil burn sometimes but it will be burning oil which will ruin the engine quick fast and in a hurry.  

 

I can promise you that the bit and machine it takes to hone these engines is not something that very many people in the US have ... certainly not the couple ill informed shops that hone the blocks they build. 


  • Neil Switzer and celsius like this

~Cicio
 
***TOP THREE TSM 1/4 MILE***
-7.37 & 198
-7.47@194
-7.59@189
***TOP THREE TSM 1/2 MILE***
-225.9 MPH
-221.3 MPH
-219.5 MPH

-OneLap of America Overall 1st Place - 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013
-TX2K13 Overall 1st Place | TX2K13 Class 2 1st Place
-Shootout 2015 Overall 1st Place & 2nd Place
-TX2K15 Class 4 2nd Place | TX2K15 Roll Race 1st Place SS
-FL2K 2015 Overall 1st Place
-TSM ELITE Plus Stock Frames @ 7.98@169
-Standing Half Mile Stock Frame Turbo Record @ 209 TSM ELITE

TopSpeedForumGTR.jpg
Call: 678-297-7770
cicio@topspeedmotorsports.com
TopSpeedMotorsports.com
**AWD Dyno Tuning
**Parts, Sales, Service


#36
Vanilla

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does that mean that it is better not to touch the cylinder walls at all? (if crosshatch looks good and blueprint comes out fine)

 

not even deglazing with a light flex hone or scotch brite like manley suggests doing, so the new rings can seat?

 

its interesting because the same thing (broken plug) happened to the user omg rb 26 who honed with a flex hone...



#37
gc1000

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Interesting read:

https://jalopnik.com...nissan-gt-r/amp

.6mm is .023” or “twenty three thou”, a bit less than a 32nd of an inch.

150 microns is .0059” or about “6 thou”, maybe 2 human hairs?

There’s so little material that can be removed here.
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#38
earico

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Interesting read:

https://jalopnik.com...nissan-gt-r/amp

.6mm is .023” or “twenty three thou”, a bit less than a 32nd of an inch.

150 microns is .0059” or about “6 thou”, maybe 2 human hairs?

There’s so little material that can be removed here.

 

Great read. Thanks for posting.


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