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Wavetrac and Road Course

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17 replies to this topic

#1
Dsm_alpha

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Curious if anyone with the wavetrac has run car on a road course. Debating doing this in offseason but still want to be able to hit the twisties
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#2
jdmrb1

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Wondering the same
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#3
BAZ007

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All wavetrac equipped GTRs that I know are straight line performers.

Although I plan to run some tracks, I won’t be able to push the car as hard mainly due to spool characteristics of the PRO1700.

Moreover i’m not sure how much different wavetrac is from drexler/overtake, which reviews are available now.

Wish Shep was more active on the forum.
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#4
7racer

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geared vs clutch right?

 

and BAZ, what do u think the spool will be like on the track...ETS and my mechanics say the 4.3 should make up for the low end.


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In7anity!!


#5
jdmrb1

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geared vs clutch right?

 

and BAZ, what do u think the spool will be like on the track...ETS and my mechanics say the 4.3 should make up for the low end.

 

 

Nice to hear !


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#6
BAZ007

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geared vs clutch right?

and BAZ, what do u think the spool will be like on the track...ETS and my mechanics say the 4.3 should make up for the low end.


This is my novice take on the topic based on my minimal experience and observations driving my GTR around the track and other track rentals:

7 you are correct its Geared (Quaife/Wavetrac) vs Clutch LSD (race teams usually). Clutched LSDs “ can” be superior with adjustable ratios to suit driving, track, and weather condition. However, they wear faster and require different traction/TCM mapping. It is a similar case with Carbon/Carbon Breaks vs Carbon Ceramic for race teams, Carbon/Carbon is almost 30-50K, superior performance (when in operating temp) but horrible wear/cost for regular users. But this is not a big concern for race teams who want to win the race and can easily manage to refurbish the items between races/sessions.

The future I think is with the eLSD or independent driving electric/KERS engines for front wheels, where the ECU can change the ratio continuously like the clutches LSD using electro-hydraulic mechanism or whatever else the engineers invent, which I think is going to be seen on the new Tesla Roadster.
Now 7 when it comes to Pro1700 around the track even with a stroked 4.3 (which we are both using), I strongly believe they won't perform as good or balanced as let us say Pro1400/TSM Elite Plus GTR built for track/road course use for three main reasons:

1. Larger turbine A/R on turbos
2. Larger CAMs that go hand in hand with larger A/R to optimize the efficiency zone of the larger A/R on the turbines
3. Weight and reliability concerns added due to more supporting mods on higher HP GTRs

Road/Track is much harsher on any car as we all know, this is why it incurs much more expenses and requires more work done to the car to optimize performance.
If you look at the standard turn below, for a GTR weight, AWD and traction control, it is USUALLY best to have late apexes, because the GTR is heavy and you can start accelerating earlier. This is enhanced by the characteristics of a smaller, fast spooling turbo.

The effect is compounded on the track. With lazier turbo you exist the corner with lower speed/inertia, you reach possible higher speed before the next corner but you also need to step earlier on the breaks (and the GTR is heavy), onto the next corner you enter the corner maybe with similar speed but throughout the corner you gain less speed and inertia.


Apex.png

When you have big ass turbos like the Pro1700, the turbo efficiency pressure zone comes later compared to turbines with smaller A/R, because the intention of larger turbos is to make more power and sacrificing early power/efficiency delivery for that.

A/R size of a turbo has a reverse effect on the turbo as we all know based on Area to Velocity relationship. Reducing the area increases the velocity, however also reduces the throughput. So turbos with Smaller Turbines A/R will flow faster because the air moves quicker, however, it reaches maximum capacity earlier, so it loses efficiency on high RPM, thus your efficiency range shifts to early RPM.
So with larger turbos that have larger A/R the efficiency range moves higher in the RPM range.

These characteristics are emphasized with CAM size as well. You would match CAM size with turbo size to optimize efficiency range of the turbo, so larger turbos get larger CAMs moving the efficiency RPM range higher.
However, both stroking and boring does not shift back the efficiency zone entirely, going from GTX28-30 sized to GTX35 sized turbos you probably expect to see the turbo efficiency zone to shift by 1000-1200RPM, both boring and stroking will probably pull back the efficiency zone by 600-700. Then you also have added weight due to supporting mods of larger HP car in addition to reliability.

So going in this build I knew for fact I am not going to get the best results at the track or road course because that wasn’t my primary intention. I still plan to go regularly, but due to associated costs, life time and abuse of parts due to tracks environment, I will most definitely be doing more drag events, where larger turbos and bigger power shines!

Edited by BAZ007, 01 January 2018 - 01:10 AM.

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#7
thehelix112

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Hope that means I can keep up with 7 when I get my. Elite plus setup eventually!

#8
BAZ007

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Hope that means I can keep up with 7 when I get my. Elite plus setup eventually!

 

 

Well 7 is getting 720S, this is why I know for fact he will be extremely happier with the 720S around the track compared to his Big HP GTR.

 

Are you already building your GTR with Elite Plus? I didn't see a post mentioning that!

 

Interestingly, Cicio did mention that he believes the Pro1400 might be (easier) to master and extract power from on the track compared to the Elite Plus due to them being very torquey. Now you can always iron that out in my opinion in the tune, but Cicio won OLOA 4 times, he is the most qualified person to answer these questions tbh.


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#9
thehelix112

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No I'm not builting it yet. I wish I was! One day.

Dave

#10
7racer

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Well 7 is getting 720S, this is why I know for fact he will be extremely happier with the 720S around the track compared to his Big HP GTR.

 

Are you already building your GTR with Elite Plus? I didn't see a post mentioning that!

 

Interestingly, Cicio did mention that he believes the Pro1400 might be (easier) to master and extract power from on the track compared to the Elite Plus due to them being very torquey. Now you can always iron that out in my opinion in the tune, but Cicio won OLOA 4 times, he is the most qualified person to answer these questions tbh.

 

I hear ya!  the weight was a big surprise, I thought the billet block and dry sump would just add a bit more weight.  I am weight for the uprights and we will get a new front weight here in a bit.

 

about the acceleration.  Didn't Cicio say the 1400 was too torquey that is, it was a "hand full" to keep and put that power down out of corners.

there is so much power down there that you can only put so much down coming out fo the corners.

 

I am almost sure he said he would prefer the 1700 kit. I need to find that post


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In7anity!!


#11
BAZ007

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I hear ya! the weight was a big surprise, I thought the billet block and dry sump would just add a bit more weight. I am weight for the uprights and we will get a new front weight here in a bit.

about the acceleration. Didn't Cicio say the 1400 was too torquey that is, it was a "hand full" to keep and put that power down out of corners.
there is so much power down there that you can only put so much down coming out fo the corners.

I am almost sure he said he would prefer the 1700 kit. I need to find that post


Pretty sure he was referring to the Elite plus.

But hey let’s see what your real world impressions are when you hit the track!

#12
Tim

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All wavetrac equipped GTRs that I know are straight line performers.
Although I plan to run some tracks, I won’t be able to push the car as hard mainly due to spool characteristics of the PRO1700.
Moreover i’m not sure how much different wavetrac is from drexler/overtake, which reviews are available now.
Wish Shep was more active on the forum.


I’ve talked. To. Shep about this and he specifically said that the Wavetrac was designed for Drag racing but if it does work. For road racing then it’s a plus.
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#13
BAZ007

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That makes sense. Hopefully we will have track review soon.
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#14
Dsm_alpha

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Shot a note to the guys at wavetrac and this was the response:

Miguel,

Our differential is actually more suited for road race / autocross
situations, as it's a non-locking torque biasing differential. So around
corners under wheel lift or spin it's able to bias power to the wheel that
is still able to deliver power to the ground. Hope this helps.



Chris Shimonkevitz
Wavetrac
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#15
7racer

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Wow...thats cool.

In7anity!!


#16
Tim

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Shot a note to the guys at wavetrac and this was the response:
Miguel,
Our differential is actually more suited for road race / autocross
situations, as it's a non-locking torque biasing differential. So around
corners under wheel lift or spin it's able to bias power to the wheel that
is still able to deliver power to the ground. Hope this helps.
Chris Shimonkevitz
Wavetrac


Great find Miguel
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#17
mikelmarion

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so what happened to shep working with them to create one for the front? Does anyone know?  Quick Miguel, send another email! :P


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#18
jdmrb1

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SHEP sells them just got one fitted to his billet case.




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