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2017 Nismo Chassis Stiffer than 15-16 Nismo?

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#1
Nismo_tw

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Hi all, a new member here with some GT-R related questions. Hopefully this wonderful community can point me to the right direction.

 

1. The Nismo models of course have stiffer chassis via additional adhesive and spot welding. But are the 17 Nismo chassis actually stiffer than the original 15 Nismo?

 

Accord to the Press Kit:

 

“Upgraded performance thanks in part to the stiffened body structure, which allowed engineers to further refine the GT-R NISMO's shock absorbers, springs and stabilizers, which, when combined with the car's added downforce, result in a better handling car than the previous model

 

 

2. Further, does the 17+ Premium have a stiffer chassis than the 12-16 DBA Primium?

 

According to the Press Kit:

 

A more rigid body structure and new suspension allow the GT-R's tires, wrapped around new 20-inch 15-spoke forged aluminum wheels, to hold the road surface better, giving it better stability through quick lateral transitions and higher overall cornering speed.”

 

Thanks

 

EDIT: Spelling


Edited by Nismo_tw, 06 December 2017 - 10:57 PM.

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#2
MCGTRNISMO

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so what happened was the standard 2017 GTR itself has some added structure rigidity which meant the NISMO gets those on top of the specific to NISMO  adhesive bonding areas. those areas are the hood the A pillars and the trunk( not  sure how the NISMO carbon trunk comes in to play on that last one but I know it benefits from the other 2) but anyway the A pillar i think is the biggest tweak. I think it was quoted as being 5% stiffer there where for reference the ahdesive bonding in the 2015 NISMO only made the entire chassis only 8% more rigid.

 

 There was a sense that the 2015 NISMO suspension was itself too stiff on anything but ultra smooth surfaces like tracks as some of the reviews loved the car on track but not as much in a real world road setting. so for 2017 they used  that extra stiffening in the chassis to balance out  some minor softening of the suspension on the 2017  NISMO  in order not loose any performance.  the word the Nissan guy I spoke with was more "compliant" on public roads so a better all around not really softening as they dont like that term used with the GTR I guess.

 

so yes on paper the 2017 NISMO has a more stiff chassis but a slightly less harsh/stiff/unforgiving suspension.

 

 

speaking of suspension on this car back a year or so ago I was chatting with michael krumm over twitter and he said the 2015 suspension was the biggest thing holding back the NISMO in standard form on the Ring  with all the dips and dives ect ect. and that the suspension from the N attack had the biggest effect on improving the time


Edited by MCGTRNISMO, 06 December 2017 - 07:39 PM.

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#3
Nismo_tw

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Thank you so much for the in depth and comprehensive explanation.

 

Is it fair to say that the 17 Premium has a chassis stiffness comparable to the 15-16 Nismo, though obviously achieved differently? Namely stronger a/c pillars vs adhesive & spot welding.

 

Was there ever any mentioning as to how much further the 17 Nismo and Track Edition by Nismo chassis are stiffened on top of the 17 Premium? Another 8% from the adhesive and welding perhaps?

 

Thanks

 



#4
MCGTRNISMO

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the 15-16 NISMO was 8% stiffer than the standard version yes.  but im not sure those numbers stack on top of one another with the 17 car because you are talking about improvements quoted in certain areas vs a quoted number of all around added stiffness. All of it i think is subtle enough that I would say real world  from a drivers perspective its going to be negligible between the two NISMOs  as both cars have demonstrated similar performance numbers on the tracks they were tested at.   the 2017 premium has seemed to go the opposite way despite the chassis tweaks as its been said in a couple reviews to produce more body roll than years before. ive driven a 17 on the street but not track yet so I dont have first hand experience with that aspect of it


Edited by MCGTRNISMO, 07 December 2017 - 01:56 AM.


#5
mikelmarion

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so what happened was the standard 2017 GTR itself has some added structure rigidity which meant the NISMO gets those on top of the specific to NISMO  adhesive bonding areas. those areas are the hood the A pillars and the trunk( not  sure how the NISMO carbon trunk comes in to play on that last one but I know it benefits from the other 2) but anyway the A pillar i think is the biggest tweak. I think it was quoted as being 5% stiffer there where for reference the ahdesive bonding in the 2015 NISMO only made the entire chassis only 8% more rigid.

 

 There was a sense that the 2015 NISMO suspension was itself too stiff on anything but ultra smooth surfaces like tracks as some of the reviews loved the car on track but not as much in a real world road setting. so for 2017 they used  that extra stiffening in the chassis to balance out  some minor softening of the suspension on the 2017  NISMO  in order not loose any performance.  the word the Nissan guy I spoke with was more "compliant" on public roads so a better all around not really softening as they dont like that term used with the GTR I guess.

 

so yes on paper the 2017 NISMO has a more stiff chassis but a slightly less harsh/stiff/unforgiving suspension.

 

 

speaking of suspension on this car back a year or so ago I was chatting with michael krumm over twitter and he said the 2015 suspension was the biggest thing holding back the NISMO in standard form on the Ring  with all the dips and dives ect ect. and that the suspension from the N attack had the biggest effect on improving the time

 

 

the 15-16 NISMO was 8% stiffer than the standard version yes.  but im not sure those numbers stack on top of one another with the 17 car because you are talking about improvements quoted in certain areas vs a quoted number of all around added stiffness. All of it i think is subtle enough that I would say real world  from a drivers perspective its going to be negligible between the two NISMOs  as both cars have demonstrated similar performance numbers on the tracks they were tested at.   the 2017 premium has seemed to go the opposite way despite the chassis tweaks as its been said in a couple reviews to produce more body roll than years before. ive driven a 17 on the street but not track yet so I dont have first hand experience with that aspect of it

 

Mc, any pics that show the areas?  Did the track Edition receive the same treatment?


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#6
MCGTRNISMO

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Mc, any pics that show the areas?  Did the track Edition receive the same treatment?

 

 

the adhesive bond areas that are NISMO( and track)  specific are in the electronic service manual and I will try to remember where exactly . I know one area is right below the door jam down by the sideskirt area.

 

but here is a pic of the a pillar window frame area that is  strengthened on all 17+.   The Japanese info said it was to reduce the difference in deformation between the front and rear. I think what that meant is under super high speeds the the high pressure area created a little flex there where it wasnt present on the rear part of the roof/windshield area. same as the hood it was reshaped and apparently strengthen to reduce flex at high speeds.   but again  some of these GTR improvements since the beginning they roll out and tout are so nuanced it can be hard to gauge their effect.   for example the C pillar on the 17 has that little crease bodyline removed that most wouldnt even notice because they said it helped reduce turbulence  by 1%. some of these things feel like minutia by themselves but I guess all add up

 

gt-r_1711_performance_body_002.png.ximg.


Edited by MCGTRNISMO, 07 December 2017 - 11:46 AM.

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#7
Biff_Malibu

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The 2017 is also notably heavier. I've spoken to someone with experience, and if I remember correctly it's over 100 pounds heavier. Thicker glass, way more sound deadening, parking sensors, noise cancelling sensors, and the chassis strengthening (roll over protection being the driver).


2015 Nissan GT-R NISMO

 


#8
Nismo_tw

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The weight gain on the 17+ GT-R is probably closer to 25 lbs, if these figures are correct. That is merely 0.6%. Given the increased rigidity and nicer interior, I think the trade off is worth it. Though, still prefer the shift paddle to be fixed on the column myself.

 

The 17 Premium benefits from the titanium exhaust, so the added weight in other ares is likely greater than 25 lbs. Which makes me wonder how much sound deadening measures are actually added to the 2017 Nismo compared to the 2015, unless they managed to save weight else where on the 17 Nismo.

 

Again, this is assuming that they controlled for variables such as fuel level when they weighted the cars.

 

MotorTrend:

 

2016 45th Anniversary Edition: 3911 [Link]

2017 Premium: 3936 [Link]

 

2015 Nismo: 3881 [Link]

2017 Nismo: 3904 [Link]


Edited by Nismo_tw, 08 December 2017 - 06:43 PM.

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#9
MCGTRNISMO

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yeah see if you go back and look the 2015 factory weights are like 70lbs lower than the 2016.  there wasnt anything really done to the 16 so it was some sort of correction on how the car was weighed ( wet/vs dry maybe )  so yea the 17 is  just under 30lbs heavier but yes if you compare 2015 NISMO to 17 it looks much much greater because of that discrepancy it reported weights


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#10
Biff_Malibu

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Not talking published weights. Actual weights vary quite a bit.

2015 Nissan GT-R NISMO

 


#11
Nismo_tw

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Thanks, that's really informative.

 

BTW, I thought the bigger publishers do actually weight the car that they test, at least when applicable.

 

For example, Car and Driver included even the corner weight of the 2015 Nismo in their test, if you download the pdf test sheet [link]. No way they got that from Nissan. They have not done a 2017 GT-R yet, now I am very curious.



#12
MCGTRNISMO

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Thanks, that's really informative.

 

BTW, I thought the bigger publishers do actually weight the car that they test, at least when applicable.

 

For example, Car and Driver included even the corner weight of the 2015 Nismo in their test, if you download the pdf test sheet [link]. No way they got that from Nissan. They have not done a 2017 GT-R yet, now I am very curious.

 

 

yep the tested weight of the 2015 by magazines is closer to Nissans declared weight of the 2016 NISMO car. for the 2015 Nissan listed it as 3813 which is a no way in hell real world figure.  they listed the 2016 in the 3880's same as the magazines.   if it wasnt for the same weight difference between the 15 and 16 premiums I would say the typo was based on the JDM or Euro spec NISMO since it has the carbon seats but im still not sure that accounts for all the 70lbs


Edited by MCGTRNISMO, 11 December 2017 - 11:13 PM.

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#13
Nismo_tw

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yep the tested weight of the 2015 by magazines is closer to Nissans declared weight of the 2016 NISMO car. for the 2015 Nissan listed it as 3813 which is a no way in hell real world figure.  they listed the 2016 in the 3880's same as the magazines.   if it wasnt for the same weight difference between the 15 and 16 premiums I would say the typo was based on the JDM or Euro spec NISMO since it has the carbon seats but im still not sure that accounts for all the 70lbs

 

The Recaro Sportster CS weights 33 lbs [link]. That's probably the weight for none heated standard version. Not sure if the CF version used in the Nismo weight any more or less. As the CF could simply be a veneer.

 

So, if the US-Spec seats weight 60 lbs each. That's about 54 lbs right there.



#14
MCGTRNISMO

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the seats used in the NISMO are basically  repurposed recaro  SPX so they are the real deal carbon






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