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Stupid question but are SS brake lines really needed?

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10 replies to this topic

#1
stealthz

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I wanted to get anyone who has tracked the car opinion if the SS lines are really needed. I have a 2014 and doing my brakes now and see the front have a hard line coming off. I am able to put the Stoptech lines on and they replace everything to the caliper. I know modulation will possibly be better but if I don't have to swap I don't see the point in doing the extra work. I have never tracked it hard yet just autocross and 1/4 and half mile driving. Thanks for your guys input.



#2
elf_cruiser

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As a novice, no they aren’t really a big deal. Your pedal feel needs to develop and once your braking skills improve then you should go ahead and swap to steel lines. After you can appreciate them, you will never want rubber brake lines again. I swapped to steel lines on our daily car and tow rig as well just because I can’t stand the soft feel of rubber lines.

There is also a safety argument to be made about wearing out rubber lines more quickly if you are using the brakes a lot. On a newer car it’s less important, but it’s up to you to decide. A ruptured brake line at the end of a high speed run could be a very very bad day.
  • Tim and 7racer like this

2010 GT-R - Matte Gray, AP/Carbotech, BSE trans cooler, BSE tune on ECUTek, H&R sways, AMSOIL, NASA-AZ TT2 and occasional DD
1976 FJ-40 Rock Buggy - tube chassis, LQ4, 700R4, NP205, Rockwells, F&R hydraulic steering, Fox, Ballistic, lots of 4130, 7068, and AR400

2001 Ford Excursion - V10, DD and occasional tow rig

facebook.com/DangerousEnterprises

Do want someday - Radical, 599 GTB w/FHP, 430 Scud, Superlite Coupe, FF Type 65 Coupe


#3
thehelix112

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I never really groked this argument to be honest. The vast vast majority of my braking is done in abs. Ie, the car is modulating the brakes for me just perfectly. Am I nuts or just not understanding?

#4
elf_cruiser

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I never really groked this argument to be honest. The vast vast majority of my braking is done in abs. Ie, the car is modulating the brakes for me just perfectly. Am I nuts or just not understanding?


If you’re getting into the ABS at every braking zone then you need better tires hahaha!
And yes there is a very noticeable difference in pedal feel between rubber and steel lines. Steel makes the pedal more sensitive which means you can be more accurate with your braking inputs because you can actually feel the grip that the pads create. Rubber lines are like condoms, and I hate condoms!
  • 7racer likes this

2010 GT-R - Matte Gray, AP/Carbotech, BSE trans cooler, BSE tune on ECUTek, H&R sways, AMSOIL, NASA-AZ TT2 and occasional DD
1976 FJ-40 Rock Buggy - tube chassis, LQ4, 700R4, NP205, Rockwells, F&R hydraulic steering, Fox, Ballistic, lots of 4130, 7068, and AR400

2001 Ford Excursion - V10, DD and occasional tow rig

facebook.com/DangerousEnterprises

Do want someday - Radical, 599 GTB w/FHP, 430 Scud, Superlite Coupe, FF Type 65 Coupe


#5
thehelix112

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If you’re getting into the ABS at every braking zone then you need better tires hahaha!
And yes there is a very noticeable difference in pedal feel between rubber and steel lines. Steel makes the pedal more sensitive which means you can be more accurate with your braking inputs because you can actually feel the grip that the pads create. Rubber lines are like condoms, and I hate condoms!

If you're not getting into abs every braking zone you need better pads and rotors my friend.




Also yes I need better tyres..

Dave
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#6
elf_cruiser

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If you're not getting into abs every braking zone you need better pads and rotors my friend.




Also yes I need better tyres..

Dave


😂😂😂
Touche!
I probably do. With the Toyo R888’s I could get into ABS if I really went 100% into the brakes, but with Hoosier R7’s there is no way, maybe on a wet or dusty surface. Honestly I have found that there is more speed to be found from trailbraking than from threshold braking. Pro drivers can manage to use both together in the same braking zone, which is something I plan to work on next year.
  • 7racer likes this

2010 GT-R - Matte Gray, AP/Carbotech, BSE trans cooler, BSE tune on ECUTek, H&R sways, AMSOIL, NASA-AZ TT2 and occasional DD
1976 FJ-40 Rock Buggy - tube chassis, LQ4, 700R4, NP205, Rockwells, F&R hydraulic steering, Fox, Ballistic, lots of 4130, 7068, and AR400

2001 Ford Excursion - V10, DD and occasional tow rig

facebook.com/DangerousEnterprises

Do want someday - Radical, 599 GTB w/FHP, 430 Scud, Superlite Coupe, FF Type 65 Coupe


#7
thehelix112

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Touche!
I probably do. With the Toyo R888’s I could get into ABS if I really went 100% into the brakes, but with Hoosier R7’s there is no way, maybe on a wet or dusty surface. Honestly I have found that there is more speed to be found from trailbraking than from threshold braking. Pro drivers can manage to use both together in the same braking zone, which is something I plan to work on next year.

Good point.. I feel like I'm trail braking, but I'm probably not, or not as much as I could be.

Buttonwillow is a pretty tight track, not really a lot of time for it. Big willow would be a different story but I only have 1 day there and I was slow as shit. :-)

#8
choerizo

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I'm still on the factory brake lines and they seem to be fine through a decent amount of track use. No issues with pedal feel. I've not done a comparison of before/after with SS lines though.



#9
forty-two

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I wanted to get anyone who has tracked the car opinion if the SS lines are really needed. I have a 2014 and doing my brakes now and see the front have a hard line coming off. I am able to put the Stoptech lines on and they replace everything to the caliper. I know modulation will possibly be better but if I don't have to swap I don't see the point in doing the extra work. I have never tracked it hard yet just autocross and 1/4 and half mile driving. Thanks for your guys input.

 

As I said on your Facebook post, not necessary if only doing a few track days, and (per choerizo above) maybe not needed on frequently tracked car.

 

The only brake line failure I've seen on a GTR was on aftermarket lines. Luckily for owner, car was at garage for a pre-track inspection, & line failed as car was being moved into garage.


ATX GTROC on Facebook - link

14492399_1137348429689454_63336591853219


#10
shawnhayes

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Here's the major problem you guys are missing....

 

The GT-R stock lines are some of the best in the business.  Look at them.  Mostly hard lines.  Well braced.  Superb fittings.

 

Stainless steel lines can only give marginal improvements on our cars.  The only thing is the 2009 lines were too soft.  Upgrading to the later lines is an improvement.

 

But to say that our cars NEED stainless?  Nope.

 

Does your hatchcrap 1992 Honda Civic CX with a turbo K20 that goes 150 on the back stretch at VIR need stainless lines?  Yep.

 

Shawn


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#11
descartesfool

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One thing people seem to not realize is that so called stainless lines are actually Teflon tubing (PTFE) covered with braid which is required to protect the thin tubing. The tubing is attached to threaded or other types of connectors to fit between the calipers and the chassis. The steel braid never touches the brake fluid, and the entire safety of the line depends on the quality of the plastic tubing and the attachment to the metal connectors, and the lack of chaffing between the braid and the Teflon line. Anyone can make a brake line with tubing and connectors, but that means nothing in terms of the lines being safe. Manufacturer OEM lines are tested by the OEM to be safe, but in general you have no idea if a set of stainless braided lines are safe, as they are not tested. Claims are made that they are DOT lines, but the DOT does not in any way test any brake line ever, all they do is set standards, and it is up to the manufacturer to prove they meet the DOT standard. Putting a DOT sticker on is easy, but it means nothing without all the tests required being passed. Hardly any ever do, so you are clueless if the most of the lines you buy are really safe.

 

In Europe, lines must meet actual tests per TUV in Germany or others, typically standard number 106. One of the few companies that actually has their lines tested and provides a report of such test as proof of compliance is Goodridge, so if you feel you need braided lines, buy those or find some other company that can prove via test reports that their lines are safe. And as Shawn said, the GT-R's lines are mostly hard lines, with only short sections of flexible lines, thus little benefit of going to less stretchable lines.

 

Here is a full test report from Goodridge's site: http://goodridge.com...Approval-03.pdf

 

and here is the SAE test procedure for brake hose certification: http://resources.hel...com/pdf/SAE.pdf

 

Just have a glance at the test procedure and you can imagine that some guy on a workbench with a crimper and some brake line parts is not capable of testing a shop assembled hose to meet such a rigorous standard.

 

So stick to OEM lines or buy quality tested lines.


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