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Billet heads

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24 replies to this topic

#1
mikelmarion

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So was curious about why these would benefit the Gtr. Martin had mentioned them in the billet block thread. He said that the driveline would have to catch up first.

I was wondering how would these benefit the Gtr? Less weight? Able to run direct and port injection? Bigger intake and exuast valves?

How would these be better than a typical stage 3ish head?
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#2
changster

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I don't get why we need direct injection.


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- 4.4 liter Alpha 12 built by TSM (R.I.P)
- 4.1 liter ER/ETS 6466 built myself with the help of everyone.

- 4.2 liter billet block <? big boy kit> coming.

 

13180940063_33e81c30d6_z.jpg


#3
mikelmarion

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I don't get why we need direct injection.


Not saying that it's needed, but it seems to produce more power and allow for higher cp ratios on pump gas.

My point is how would billet heads benefit the Gtr? I can't see how they would make more power than everyone's ported heads. Direct and port injection combined is the only way I can think of

#4
shawnhayes

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I don't get why we need direct injection.

 

We don't.  DI is about efficiency.  If you don't care about MPG or the tricks needed to produce more power on pump gas then screw it.  DI is so that a 2.0 liter four cylinder with a turbocharger and a supercharger can make 345 horsepower and get 26MPG (Volvo).

 

Shawn



#5
Carmiwrx

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We don't. DI is about efficiency. If you don't care about MPG or the tricks needed to produce more power on pump gas then screw it. DI is so that a 2.0 liter four cylinder with a turbocharger and a supercharger can make 345 horsepower and get 26MPG (Volvo).

Shawn


I did read somewhere (don't quote me) that the DI systems had a lower knock propensity vs standard injection systems. So, thats one good thing that would help.
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#6
Doug@WGP

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I would think the purpose of a billet head would be to allow better porting without sacrificing the strength of the cooling passages and exhaust divider walls, which can crack if you overdo it currently.

Doug Ross
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#7
JustinOlson

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The driving factor for billet heads is going to be deck stability at extreme high cylinder pressures...



#8
shawnhayes

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I did read somewhere (don't quote me) that the DI systems had a lower knock propensity vs standard injection systems. So, thats one good thing that would help.


You are exactly right, but that feeds from exactly what I was talking about. Knock is from lean condition, and DI is much better at avoiding that. But you can get it right with port.

Shawn

#9
mikelmarion

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hopefully, Martin can chime in since he is the one making them



#10
BAZ007

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hopefully, Martin can chime in since he is the one making them

 

 

Pretty sure WillAll are making Billet heads for the TT Lambo crowd, not the GTR as of yet the stock heads seem to be holding well.


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#11
shawnhayes

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I would think the purpose of a billet head would be to allow better porting without sacrificing the strength of the cooling passages and exhaust divider walls, which can crack if you overdo it currently.

 

You're very likely correct Doug.

 

My only reason for even being in this thread (me all stock block and turbo's and all) is about the direct injection.  It's a great whizzbang for small engines to get much higher horsepower without knock, but unnecessary in this application.  Not BAD, per se, just unnecessary.

 

Shawn


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#12
mikelmarion

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Pretty sure WillAll are making Billet heads for the TT Lambo crowd, not the GTR as of yet the stock heads seem to be holding well.

 

 

You're very likely correct Doug.

 

My only reason for even being in this thread (me all stock block and turbo's and all) is about the direct injection.  It's a great whizzbang for small engines to get much higher horsepower without knock, but unnecessary in this application.  Not BAD, per se, just unnecessary.

 

Shawn

I was just curious as to how billet heads would be of any upgrade over the stock heads.  Only way i could  think of was adding direct injection with port.  Otherwise, not sure how they would make more power.  Or their purpose. Has anyone blown apart stock heads?



#13
Doug@WGP

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Interestingly some of the mustang and ecoboost crowd are making direct injection delete kits to put the cars back to standard port injection...

Doug Ross
Owner of Weapons Grade Performance
-Northeast/Pacific Northwest Shops where we ONLY work on GT-Rs
-Owner/Builder of the 1st Ever Home Garage GT-R Drivetrain Removal
Cobb Protuner / EcuTek Tuner
-All Wheel Drive Mustang Dyno in House
doug@weaponsgradeperformance.com
Our Online Store
East Coast Location 226 N. Plains Industrial Rd, Wallingford CT 06492 203-668-4765


#14
Jimefam

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Most of the DI crowd that want big power need to get rid of it because there arent good solutions for a high pressure fuel pump that flows what you need for big power or ethanol. But DI is better in every way if you could sufficiently fuel it. Its not just better mpg its much better knock control and fueling as the pressure leads to better atomization as well as being able to spray fuel during the compression stroke which is huge for knock prevention. Thats why you see new bmws running big boost and high conpression (10.5:1) and doing well with 91 octane.

As far as billet heads for the GTR justin said it. As long as they can stay clamped down and not crack or warp oem heads will be fine, when and if that happens then billet would be better. As far as flow goes and better porting i doubt it would justify the cost of billet heads for that reason alone. Stock heads flow very well.
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#15
shawnhayes

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Most of the DI crowd that want big power need to get rid of it because there arent good solutions for a high pressure fuel pump that flows what you need for big power or ethanol. But DI is better in every way if you could sufficiently fuel it. Its not just better mpg its much better knock control and fueling as the pressure leads to better atomization as well as being able to spray fuel during the compression stroke which is huge for knock prevention. Thats why you see new bmws running big boost and high conpression (10.5:1) and doing well with 91 octane.

As far as billet heads for the GTR justin said it. As long as they can stay clamped down and not crack or warp oem heads will be fine, when and if that happens then billet would be better. As far as flow goes and better porting i doubt it would justify the cost of billet heads for that reason alone. Stock heads flow very well.


Agreed. The problem with DI is not just hard to find high flow pumps that push the psi needed, but that run cool and can keep up. The other problem is valve deposits. Fuel helps keep valves clean. DI engines are having a shitton of problems with deposits unless they have stock air:oil separators. Especially the turbo ones with oil vapor coming into the intake tract under compression.

I'm not dogging DI in general, it's just another first world problem to solve. Port injection is cheaper and easier to make big power on - now. Just like carborated cars used to be easier to make big power on versus fuel injected. It took the market and science years to catch up, but now we have.

DI problems will get solved later, and it is inherently more controllable, but as I said before - for the GT-R, there is no need to add it - for now. That will also be very hard, not to mention expensive.

Shawn
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#16
CasualObserver

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Many more recent cars have port AND DI injectors. The Huracan for instance. You end up with great knock control and limitation of valve deposits of port injection.
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#17
shawnhayes

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Many more recent cars have port AND DI injectors. The Huracan for instance. You end up with great knock control and limitation of valve deposits of port injection.


The best of both worlds.

Downside: complex fueling tables. Harder to tune.

Upside: redundant fuel system, if done properly. Failure may not be catastrophic.

Shawn
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#18
Blade30

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DI huge issue on Porsche 997.2tt/991.1tt cars
It is really sux plus the extra injector will be stupid expensive

#19
changster

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DI huge issue on Porsche 997.2tt/991.1tt cars
It is really sux plus the extra injector will be stupid expensive

 

What does "huge issue" mean?

 

What really sucks?

 

Why are extra injectors stupid expensive? ID's are cheap.


- 4.4 liter Alpha 12 built by TSM (R.I.P)
- 4.1 liter ER/ETS 6466 built myself with the help of everyone.

- 4.2 liter billet block <? big boy kit> coming.

 

13180940063_33e81c30d6_z.jpg


#20
thehelix112

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Ids aren't a direct injector though right?




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