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Motec Display replacement for the GTR (C1212)

- - - - - motec motec display cluster

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#1
BAZ007

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Greetings all,

As most of you probably know, I have already tried hard convincing Motec AU & Motec USA to work on the new C1212 display for the GTR. More info on this in HERE.

However without success, or plan to support the project thus far from Motec although Darren expressed great interest. I decided to try work on this project on my own after I commission my big boy build. Shooting for end of the year time frame to have a working prototype.

 

The costs are going to be high for developing this kit from the ground up as well as the display graphics, which to look good will require considerable custom work tailored for the GTR. There are several parts that will need to be worked to get it working flawlessly as Darren have pointed out to me briefly what needs to be done to have a 100% OE replacement display. To note, there has been few projects and there are few projects for integrating the Motec displays with the GTR, however none of which are true 100% replacement suitable for everyday street driving that addresses all OE circuits, replicate OE I/O, sensors, signals and display all the needed information.

 

C1212 is more cost effective and uses a regular connector where the C1812 uses an expensive race grade connector that is going to be very costly to make the loom for.

 

I plan to start a Go Fund Me once I receive my car back and use it as the test car for the kit. Meanwhile I would like to get some feedback on what information do you guys like to be displayed if you were interested in such kit?

 

Here are some generic templated to give you an idea. You can customize the display anyway you want to. You can also create multiple pages (Im not sure how many) so that you can flip for Racing mode and Street mode. The display is large 12" and is of high resolution (1280x480).

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Edited by BAZ007, 22 May 2017 - 05:55 PM.

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#2
Tim

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Very interesting my man


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#3
BAZ007

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Part of the plan is to make it work on both OEM ECU (or tuned via Cobb/Ecutek) eventually (still not sure if its possible). But initially, the focus is to make it work with Motec ECU.

 

Oh also one great advantage is you can custom the RPM to be 9,10,11,12..etc for instance, so you can actually track the RPM past the 8K mark and not guess when to shift on modded GTRs. Even though most people use auto shift points for drag racing, it has always been weird looking at the RPM stuck at 8K while the car is still accelerating.


Edited by BAZ007, 22 May 2017 - 05:57 PM.

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#4
Tim

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Any idea till you have working Prototype /


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#5
BAZ007

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Probably towards December/January 2018.
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#6
Tony1

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I think this project is cool, but I think a Gofundme account to fund the development is ridiculous. 


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#7
mikelmarion

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So, what are the differences between 1812 and the 1212 besides the connector? hopefully Darren can chime in



#8
2highpsi

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Can we have a customizable dash like an R8?  :lol:

 

If so, EVERYONE will go Motec!

 

 

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#9
2highpsi

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#10
Tony1

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So, what are the differences between 1812 and the 1212 besides the connector? hopefully Darren can chime in

Very different.   The C1212 is the entry level 12" dash.  It's very much limited in both input/output quantity and capability, and internal computing capability for lack of better words.   The C1812 is a high end race dash that does A LOT more than display data. 

 

That said, both are capable of doing what needs to be done here, so only very few would actually take  advantage of what the C1812 is capable of over the C1212.

 

http://www.motec.com.../c1812overview/

 

http://www.motec.com.../c1212overview/

 

The cost of the connector on the C1812 is nothing compared to the cost of the units in comparison.   The C1212 is $3850 and the C1812 is $7280.


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#11
BAZ007

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What Tony said is spot on, it would be also outstanding to have Tony, Cicio, Rob and other Pro GTR tuners interested in this project. Based on what Darren told me, the C1212 in its basic configuration can not handle all I/O of the GTR and will require the I/O upgrade package. Beside that Display Creator is also somewhat required so you can custom the display and tailor it to what you want. Other options are not vital or crucial for our type of use, especially if one already has the Motec M150 with L3 logging.

 

Moreover customizing it to display NAV I believe is doable, but will take alot of development work that no one would be willing to undertake, moreover you will need another HDD unit that is compatible with the display.

 

Darren was kind enough to take some time to make this sheet, illustrating what the C1212 needs to replace OEM GTR display.

 

C1212.JPG

 

 

 

 

These are the different of options and features between the two displays.

 

g6.JPG

 

Motec C1812

 

 

Screen: Color TFT LCD, anti-reflective
Selectable fixed layouts with channel and label configurability
48 user-defined, scrollable message lines with programmable overrides
3 programmable ‘pages’, for example Practice, Warm-Up, Race

 

Logging
250 MB logging memory (500 MB optional with 32GB IP67 USB Stick)
Logging rates up to 1000 samples per second
Fast Ethernet download
Includes i2 Standard data analysis software (i2 Pro available as an upgrade)

 

Communications
4 x configurable CAN buses with individually programmable CAN bus speeds
One can be used as RS232 Receive
Two CAN buses support VIM/SVIM Expanders
2 x dedicated RS232 ports

 

Physical
Dimensions 196.2 x 122.5 x 24.9 mm excluding connector
Weight 670 g
1 x 79 pin Autosport connector

 

Inputs
10 x analogue voltage inputs (20 with I/O Upgrade)
4 x analogue temperature inputs (8 with I/O upgrade)
4 x digital inputs
2 x switch inputs
4 x speed inputs

 

Outputs
6 x low side outputs
PWM or switched operation
Internal Sensors
3-axis G sensor
Dash temperature sensor
Sensor supply voltage
Battery voltage

 

Expanders
Compatible with MoTeC E888 and E816 Expanders, providing full functionality
Compatible with VIM/SVIM Expanders

 

 

BG5.JPG

 

 

Motec C1212

 

Display
Screen: Color TFT LCD, anti-reflective
Selectable fixed layouts with channel and label configurability
48 user-defined, scrollable message lines with programmable overrides
3 programmable ‘pages’, for example Practice, Warm-Up, Race

 

Logging (optional – requires Logging Upgrade)

Level 1 Upgrade – 120 MB logging memory
Level 2 Upgrade – USB Logging with IP67 USB Stick
Logging rates up to 500 samples per second
Fast Ethernet download
Includes i2 Standard data analysis software (i2 Pro available as an upgrade)

 

Communications
2 x Configurable CAN buses with individually programmable CAN bus speeds
One can be used as RS232 Receive
RS232: 2 x RS232 ports
One with Transmit and Receive
One with Receive only

 

Physical
IP67 Rated
1 x 34 pin waterproof connector

Inputs (optional – requires I/O Upgrade)
6 x analogue voltage inputs
2 x analogue temperature inputs
2 x digital inputs
3 x speed inputs

 

Outputs (optional – requires I/O Upgrade)
4 x low side outputs
PWM or switched operation
Internal Sensors
3-axis G sensor
Dash temperature sensor
Sensor supply voltage
Battery voltage

 

Expanders
Compatible with MoTeC E888 and E816 Expanders, providing expanded functionality.

 

 

g5.JPG

 

 

G7.JPG


Edited by BAZ007, 23 May 2017 - 03:01 PM.


#12
mikelmarion

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Holy shit these things are expensive  Damn, the 1812 looked good but over $10k with all of the options.  So if one gets the C1812, do they not need the M150 then?  arent they doing the same thing?  what are these displays doing that the M150 can't?  besides being a display? 

 

Maybe Tony and Darren and others ect can chime in on the thinngs that can be done with these on the gtr.

 

Great post Baz, this is an amazing idea.  Im still holding out hope for a c7 vette h.u.d swap to the gtr 



#13
mikelmarion

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Very different.   The C1212 is the entry level 12" dash.  It's very much limited in both input/output quantity and capability, and internal computing capability for lack of better words.   The C1812 is a high end race dash that does A LOT more than display data. 

 

That said, both are capable of doing what needs to be done here, so only very few would actually take  advantage of what the C1812 is capable of over the C1212.

 

http://www.motec.com.../c1812overview/

 

http://www.motec.com.../c1212overview/

 

The cost of the connector on the C1812 is nothing compared to the cost of the units in comparison.   The C1212 is $3850 and the C1812 is $7280.

so, would one be able to run the k.ap.s awd setup and the Dsc shock controller setup on this screen?  are these touchscreen?



#14
Tony1

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The C1812 does not take the place of an M1.  The ecu runs the engine/trans/etc.   The C1812 could handle a lot of additional inputs/outputs and logging, but does not replace the M1.  

 

I have a C185 (5" version of the C1812) in the trunk of my race car logging a lot of the TCM sensors.  It's wired into a patch harness and picking up all of the pressure sensors, fork positions, clutch speeds, etc. and I have Motec logs of all of that.   It's come in extremely handy more than a few times diagnosing transmission problems on various cars (it's on a PNP patch loom, so I can swap it to any car quickly).  Something like that wouldn't be capable with the C125 version because there aren't enough inputs for all of that. 


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#15
Tony1

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so, would one be able to run the k.ap.s awd setup and the Dsc shock controller setup on this screen?  are these touchscreen?

 

The are not touch screen. 

 

The KAPS controller isn't necessary with an M1 ecu, the handles FWD control, and you could setup the dash to display front drive torque if you wanted. 

 

The sky is almost the limit with a dash like this and Display Creator (and a lot of time!).  If you have data coming out of the DSC shock controller, you could easily take that into the dash and turn it into whatever type of display you desire. 


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#16
BAZ007

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Maybe with enough demand, Motec and the great GTR Motec tuners (T1, TSM, Alpha Logic) can also push the frontiers of this, once Motec commit to developing all the required I/O signals!


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#17
mikelmarion

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So maybe you are working on AWD control now. We talked about it in my other thread. I meant a screen like this possibly or better

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#18
mikelmarion

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Or this

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#19
BAZ007

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So maybe you are working on AWD control now. We talked about it in my other thread. I meant a screen like this possibly or better

 

 

You can definitely display the Torque split between front and rear, as well as each wheel speed on a nice graphic. However, actually tuning the AWD through the software I would not think would be an easy task or feasible. Moreover, remember Motec does not use Kaps or other AWD controllers, rather a built in feature with the Motec M150.


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#20
DarrenR@MoTeC

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Omar, great to see you're pushing forward with the project. We will come to the party (decided a month or so ago) with a base config that will sort out the integration into the car, setup of the I/O, replacing the CAN messages that the OE cluster transmits and receive all relevant data for warning lamps and gauges (as best possible) as well as a ton of other data from the car and Motec ECU that can be displayed. We'll also be making a basic display layout in Display Creator that will allow you to drive the car safely.

I don't know when this will be available, it should be in the next month or so, but I'm not doing the job so I don't know. I'll let everyone know on here when it's available so please don't go asking about it yet! Given this thread on the topic I think I can let the news out there.

 

There is a few things we can't support that the OE cluster does -

- Some of the menu selections and settings, although you should be able to achieve similar functionality with time put into the configuration.

- Oil level sensor is an unknown at this point. We may be able to read it, or may not without additional circuitry.

- C12x dashes don't quite have enough inputs to cover everything connected to the OE cluster, but it comes close and with some creative wiring or added CAN input module we can get there.

- No OBD functionality for service tools reading data/DTCs from the dash.

 

There will be configs made for C1212, C1812, C127 and C187 (12" and 7" screen size). We're not doing a plugin wiring adapter or any mounting or cluster surrounds to suit, just a dash config at this stage.

 

The job of making a really nice display is a very large job, and can be a very personal thing also so we're really just giving a leg up on the parts most people can't do. There is lots of great graphic designers out there and Display Creator is flexible enough to do pretty much anything, gauges, bar graphs, transparency,  images, video, animations (frame by frame based on data/conditions), so to do something like the R8 dash is not out of the question. Sat Nav though, the picture would have to come from another device via an old fashioned composite video signal. The video in is made for a reversing camera so it's not ideal for this purpose.

 

The C12x will need the I/O upgrade, and without the display creator upgrade the display options are pretty limited.

The C18x has 30 I/O and logging as standard (you don't need the 44 I/O upgrade) so just the display creator upgrade is all you need.

Other upgrades are only needed if you need the features they enable.

 

ANY data that is available on CAN or most wired signals can be displayed in lots of different ways. Screens switched between, section of the screen switched, or whole screen switches, and are only limited by the amount of memory on the display board. So if you make some really complicated screens you might be limited to 10, or simpler (or efficient) screens you might have 50?

Having the dash and the M1 ECU allows stuff like displaying your launch RPM over the top of your tacho, TC settings. Integration of our CAN keypads to change engine settings and display menus on the screen to alter those settings. There is a CAN Joystick in the same family as our keypads (made by Grayhill) that could give you an interface similar to BMWs iDrive. This wouldn't be easy but our software is flexible enough to do it yourself!

 

I'm excited to see what Omar and any others come up with. I know what our systems are capable of and that there are plenty of people out there wanting this type of thing and are willing to put the time into make it happen which is why I'm in great support of the project.

 

Cheers,

Darren.


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