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Just gonna man up and admit it, you guys were right, never should have helped SBD

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#21
Jack

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I truly am sorry David, but after my experience I knew it was coming.  You got lucky, imagine if you had a series of cars scattered around the US and they all began to fail due to his parts.  He then tells you he will not cover it and gives you this total bullshit response as to why he won't help as it's not his fault.  You then have to take care of your customers on your own.  You pay all shipping to get the cars back, all labor to remove his parts, all costs to install good parts (buying new parts from another vendor all over again), re-tuning, and then ship back.  Not only a hit to your reputation but a huge hit financially.  You now have a bunch of his parts which you look at and think 'that turbo cost me $15k in losses, that kit cost me $10k in losses' and on and on.

 

To top it off, he then hits you with a blow that is so low and such a POS move that you just can't comprehend the type of person to do such a thing.  He goes along and promotes your competitors products and does it in a way where you see him laughing about it as he continues to try to hurt your business and reputation.  So he felt the need to not only try to destroy us by leaving us high and dry with many warranty repairs, but he then turns things to make you look like your product is terrible and your competitor is the new hotness.  It's just so unbelievable I just can't wrap my head around such evil. 

Our engine is still in his car and I hate that. I hope it blows up soon so nothing of mine is attached to this mess.  Unfortunately, his turbos can't make enough power to break it, so I'm stuck with my engine continuing to take the abuse in that POS.

 

In the end, I am out so much money it's incredible!  It's such a devastating blow, but I learn lessons in life and it has broken me in some ways as a human being.  This has eaten at my soul and changed me.  Changed me for the better in some ways, but also changed me to view my fellow man as such pieces of shit.  It's all part of growing, I guess, but that's not the kind of growing I wanted in my life.  It has changed the way I do business too and I am so cautious now that it actually harms our parts development program here because I never release anything due to fear of something like this happening again.

We got hosed yet again by an SBD 1400 kit recently.  It never ends...  We found a major flaw in the design which is why they don't make the numbers they should and why they have horrid lag.  I approached him privately about this and he immediately got defensive about it and the same old thing where I am fucked and he will not help.  I have detailed pics and documentation of this flaw so I may end up posting all about it when this thread is dying down after David says what he has to say.  All of his turbos are flawed to fail in performance and I have the proof of that.  Wonder why they can't hit an 8?  I know exactly why.

 

In the end, very sorry to hear this David.  I hope you continue to trust others and not think we are all pieces of shit.  It could have been a lot worse and I'm actually relieved to see that you did not take such a huge hit before shit hit the fan.

 

Good luck and keep innovating!!


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#22
1SLOGTR

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So I see MCGTRNISMO in here so I would like to call him and GTRLIFE out. So please answer this question. Is GTRLIFE just too retarded to actually see what he does or Is GTRLIFE in it with him? I don't see any other possible answer GTRLIFE can come up with so please choose A or B. GTRLIFE could help prevent but it is one of his few advertising areas.
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#23
UnaBomber

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I truly am sorry David, but after my experience I knew it was coming.  You got lucky, imagine if you had a series of cars scattered around the US and they all began to fail due to his parts.  He then tells you he will not cover it and gives you this total bullshit response as to why he won't help as it's not his fault.  You then have to take care of your customers on your own.  You pay all shipping to get the cars back, all labor to remove his parts, all costs to install good parts (buying new parts from another vendor all over again), re-tuning, and then ship back.  Not only a hit to your reputation but a huge hit financially.  You now have a bunch of his parts which you look at and think 'that turbo cost me $15k in losses, that kit cost me $10k in losses' and on and on.

 

To top it off, he then hits you with a blow that is so low and such a POS move that you just can't comprehend the type of person to do such a thing.  He goes along and promotes your competitors products and does it in a way where you see him laughing about it as he continues to try to hurt your business and reputation.  So he felt the need to not only try to destroy us by leaving us high and dry with many warranty repairs, but he then turns things to make you look like your product is terrible and your competitor is the new hotness.  It's just so unbelievable I just can't wrap my head around such evil. 

Our engine is still in his car and I hate that. I hope it blows up soon so nothing of mine is attached to this mess.  Unfortunately, his turbos can't make enough power to break it, so I'm stuck with my engine continuing to take the abuse in that POS.

 

In the end, I am out so much money it's incredible!  It's such a devastating blow, but I learn lessons in life and it has broken me in some ways as a human being.  This has eaten at my soul and changed me.  Changed me for the better in some ways, but also changed me to view my fellow man as such pieces of shit.  It's all part of growing, I guess, but that's not the kind of growing I wanted in my life.  It has changed the way I do business too and I am so cautious now that it actually harms our parts development program here because I never release anything due to fear of something like this happening again.

We got hosed yet again by an SBD 1400 kit recently.  It never ends...  We found a major flaw in the design which is why they don't make the numbers they should and why they have horrid lag.  I approached him privately about this and he immediately got defensive about it and the same old thing where I am fucked and he will not help.  I have detailed pics and documentation of this flaw so I may end up posting all about it when this thread is dying down after David says what he has to say.  All of his turbos are flawed to fail in performance and I have the proof of that.  Wonder why they can't hit an 8?  I know exactly why.

 

In the end, very sorry to hear this David.  I hope you continue to trust others and not think we are all pieces of shit.  It could have been a lot worse and I'm actually relieved to see that you did not take such a huge hit before shit hit the fan.

 

Good luck and keep innovating!!

 

please post the info for the community


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4.4 Billet block, ETS Pro1900 Turbos 
19xx whp/13xx wtq

213mph Half Mile, 7.64@184, 1.23 60 foot

 

1995 Motorex R33 GTR

     2.8, PTE6766, ProEFI 8xx whp


#24
J5isalive

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Glad people are posting their stories... so many people buying his parts just think vendors hate SBD cause he has undercut price in the market,  unfortunately the reasons he isn't liked are far far deeper than him undercutting people on price.   His tactics are deplorable.

 

His story is that he is good for the community cause he removes the GTR Tax.... I hope people will begin to see through his logic.


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#25
MCGTRNISMO

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So I see MCGTRNISMO in here so I would like to call him and GTRLIFE out. So please answer this question. Is GTRLIFE just too retarded to actually see what he does or Is GTRLIFE in it with him? I don't see any other possible answer GTRLIFE can come up with so please choose A or B. GTRLIFE could help prevent but it is one of his few advertising areas.

 

 

you should ask verticalscope. If you want their email let me know..but they are pretty hands off these days. But since you ask ,  If it were up to me which it isnt he wouldnt be renewed when his current time is up just for the fact I get tired of hearing about the company or having the site  associated  in general every day. Hopefully if his facebook group keeps  growing maybe they wont need  the dying "forums" anymore anyway


Edited by MCGTRNISMO, 03 November 2016 - 02:56 PM.

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#26
shawnhayes

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You guys were absolutely, 100% correct about this guy.  He is a back stabbing, only in it for himself douche bag.  I should have listened.  

 

You know what else is funny,  his 4" exhaust is hit or miss, again, did he replace the one we had that didn't fit, yes, no questions asked.  The turbo kit changes he made, I wish I had recordings of the conversations we had, everything he has changed are things I told him he should do to make it better.....it's quite fucking amazing.

 

 

 

You have no idea how many "it's just intakes" comments we've dealt with over the years.  No idea.  There is NO LIMIT to the morally repugnant behavior we have seen over the years.  So, we try to warn everybody.  And then, the "it's just intakes", "it's just a turbo kit", "it's just an exhaust"....on and on and on

 

I swear to heaven, I wouldn't be surprised if the defenders eventually said "it's just a short range thermonuclear weapon, how can you be sure it's a copy?"

 

Shawn


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#27
shawnhayes

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 Hopefully if his facebook group keeps  growing maybe they wont need  the dying "forums" anymore anyway

 

58683008_2dc4c01d94_z.jpg?zz=1


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#28
DjnHard

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Can't someone just whoop his fucking ass at the next event?  DAVE, sorry this happened. I know sooooooo many people tried to warn you. This was always going to happen. Just a matter of when. FUCK HIM


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#29
jdmrb1

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That's already happening TSM stock frames are destroying everything SBD can throw at them

Edited by jdmrb1, 03 November 2016 - 04:52 PM.

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#30
ThatOtherGTR

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yup. already said my peace on FB. He just waits for his next victim to sweet talk. End of story.


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#31
J5isalive

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You said it on Facebook? Did he ban you from his group yet?
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#32
Dv8

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David, no worries bro, he'll get his, its just a matter of time.  The GTR communities Oates boiling point will spill over on him.

 

I was kicked off his FB page a couple months ago for posting a 100% truthful reply, then posted on Battalion about it. A couple more guys have followed suit since.
Many of his simple minded minions cant see through his BS, yet hes alienated almost 80% of guys that have been in the GTR world at minimum 2 years.  I have no problem with China manufacturing, but stop poorly reverse engineering other peoples shit and desgin it yourself-or get a REAL fucking job dickface.

 

 He's a sleezy sales guy, to the core.

 

~Dv8


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 4/28/18 8.81 @163MPH 

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#33
Jack

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I have been debating sharing this info because then they will fix it at my expense and I lose again, but here you go.  If SBD comes out with a fix it's because I got hit with more labor and repairs again thanks to them and they get to take my suffering and improve their product. V9 coming soon!!

 

First I want to say the company which went through these turbos for me is well known and has been very honest about all turbo failures we had them look into for us over the years.  I never have problems or failures from this turbo supplier.  They have been absolutely flawless over the years and a pleasure to deal with.  Here below in quotes is what they found and what they did to fix it.  I am not going to mention the company name in here as I do not want to drag them into this mess.  These are supposed to be the SBD1400 which I believe are like a gtx35:

 

782-curve_zpswzwiup4p.jpg

 

783_zpsuuhvildh.jpg

Here is basically what the issues are:

 

Turbine wheel clearance.  

 

A typical GT35 from Garrett is .035 to .040" wheel clearance.  These are .055 So actually not THAT far off.  BUT they are both not centered.  They are justified 15-20 thousands to 1 side, so that creates an issue. That one side has .020 and the other has .035", that is going to affect spool and efficiency. That is the exducer measurement.  The 62mm that the photos are of.  

 

Next issue is the "curve".  The Turbine wheel tapers from 68mm at the inducer to 62mm at the exducer.  That area is the curve.  The curve was machined improperly in 2 ways. One is a clearance issue same as above that it has too much clearance. Typically this area is hotter and requires more clearance than the .035" but you can see that these have excessive clearance in that area just by eye, and by measuring it, it's up to .070" in a few areas.

 

Next issue with the curve is the height.  When the exhaust enters the turbine housing and is directed towards the spooling blade (top portion of the inducer).  That ring is designed to force exhaust energy on the turbine wheel.  These turbos were machined too short by over .100" and that allows that exhaust energy to not hit the turbine wheel and have a more direct path to exit the turbo.  Slowing turbine speed and response. 

 

The turbo will "work", but it was far from ideal in terms of tolerance. 

 

The "Fix" is to machine out .200 of additional material, and install a sleeve.  This is similar to what you would do with an engine block.  This will allow the height and curve to match the wheel.  It is then welded in place and it can be machined in the center of the hole. 

 

Hope that makes sense to you and the customer.

 

 

Here below is the finished unit.  Note how much tighter the fitment and how the wheel follows the housing curve.  You can see the witness marks from the welding required to fit the sleeve in place to correct the clearance issue on the flange surface:

 

Turbo2_zpsr2y4h5tj.jpg

 

Turbo3_zps8qvb2vte.jpg

 

We wanted to modify the compressor side too, but were unable to due to one of the turbos having a reverse rotation.  The turbine wheel is also not very good so it came down to trying to save these turbos with the most gain without tossing them in the trash.  Here is our conversation with the turbo builder on that:

 

Other thing is the compressor wheel isn’t the most efficient.  So for example an out of the box Garrett might make 10psi at 50k rpm, these might take 55k rpm to make the same boost.  So that's what makes the response lower, as well as not all the exhaust energy hitting the turbine wheel from the improper machining of the “curve".

 

The end result, the cheaper the more it makes sense to fix.  The turbine machining will help the most.  The compressor wheel its an $$ to fix.  As it would require making a reverse rotation wheel.

 

You can see that the curve has a gap, its just from his company in taiwan’s lack of knowledge.

 

Next issue is we are still dealing with Chinese turbine wheels in a Garrett CHRA (hence why the serial numbers are ground off) To be honest I don’t trust them in high heat situations like I would something OEM like from IHI or Garrett. 

 

 

In the end we just fixed the turbine clearance issue.  The car feels better but it is still not making the power it should.  I feel bad because the customer is a great guy but now he is stuck with these turbos that will never get him into the 8's.  I drive fast GT-Rs every day here.  I know when a car is fast and performing efficiently and a car which doesn't.  This car still feels like it has a lot of lag and doesn't pull near as hard as it should.  The car is still sitting here...  It's done but sitting here.


Edited by Jack, 03 November 2016 - 06:09 PM.

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#34
Carmiwrx

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Like a much needed divorce, I'm just glad its over for you two, Dave. Riggs belongs in China, ripping off patented designs and seemingly never-ever getting a clean shave.
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RIP: C. O, E. H., C.S-K.

I popped my motor after 4yrs and 8k miles which all of them were hard miles like a dude fucking his first piece of pussy after doing 5yrs in the joint. -Tim S.


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#35
ThatOtherGTR

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You said it on Facebook? Did he ban you from his group yet?


Lmao. Yes, I actually just checked. I had hidden all that groups posts a while back because they were all him trying to sell something. Like, all...the...fucking...time...

My post was in a thread in battalion somewhere I think. It may still be up, but likely buried way down as it's been a couple months.
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#36
2highpsi

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Wait a minute... You mean to tell me these turbos aren't REALLY 99% of the performance of the big brands, but at 50% of the price??? Mother Fucker!!

:lol:

IIRC, the best trap I've seen out of the 1400R (you know GT35R race version with open dumps) was 158-160. So it's basically good competition for the high quality 30R kits. Except, worse spool, louder, and higher potential for failure.

At this point, the info is out there. Anyone that still gets burnt probably deserves it.
Edit: (That wasn't a dig at you David. Takes a lot to admit you were wrong, and I commend you for it)

Edited by 2highpsi, 03 November 2016 - 06:55 PM.

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#37
changster

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That's already happening TSM stock frames are destroying everything SBD can throw at them

 

Yeah the TSM stock frames are nuts. 


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- 4.4 liter Alpha 12 built by TSM (R.I.P)
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#38
NickTO

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SBD's favorite supplier types had a hard time at SEMA:

http://jalopnik.com/...arke-1788555323


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#39
Jack

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Wait a minute... You mean to tell me these turbos aren't REALLY 99% of the performance of the big brands, but at 50% of the price??? Mother Fucker!!

:lol:

IIRC, the best trap I've seen out of the 1400R (you know GT35R race version with open dumps) was 158-160. So it's basically good competition for the high quality 30R kits. Except, worse spool, louder, and higher potential for failure.

At this point, the info is out there. Anyone that still gets burnt probably deserves it.
Edit: (That wasn't a dig at you David. Takes a lot to admit you were wrong, and I commend you for it)

 

We have another car here which has the same build but with a pair of 3586HTA turbos via an ETS kit instead. My brother and I have been pulling the hair out of our heads trying to get the SBD1400 kit to perform without success.  The other day we got in the 3586 car for a log and at the same boost it ripped through 3rd gear barely able to stay in lane and both my brother and I looked at each other and were shocked at how much harder the turbos hit and how insanely hard it pulled.  We got used to how slow the SBD kit was that the ETS kit totally hit us by surprise for a second, lol!  The difference is huge! 

You can load the shit out of a car on the dyno and peak out some numbers, but at the end of the day the lag and difference from a really good turbo kit is still substantial.  Shoot, I actually hit 999hp the other day on USMs!  I loaded that car down pretty hard but those turbos peaked at that number.  Am I going around with a close-up shot of that 999?  No, but you'd bet your ass I'd get a few sales out of showing that dyno sheet if I did.


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#40
Jimefam

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I have been debating sharing this info because then they will fix it at my expense and I lose again, but here you go. If SBD comes out with a fix it's because I got hit with more labor and repairs again thanks to them and they get to take my suffering and improve their product. V9 coming soon!!

First I want to say the company which went through these turbos for me is well known and has been very honest about all turbo failures we had them look into for us over the years. I never have problems or failures from this turbo supplier. They have been absolutely flawless over the years and a pleasure to deal with. Here below in quotes is what they found and what they did to fix it. I am not going to mention the company name in here as I do not want to drag them into this mess. These are supposed to be the SBD1400 which I believe are like a gtx35:

782-curve_zpswzwiup4p.jpg

783_zpsuuhvildh.jpg

Here below is the finished unit. Note how much tighter the fitment and how the wheel follows the housing curve. You can see the witness marks from the welding required to fit the sleeve in place to correct the clearance issue on the flange surface:

Turbo2_zpsr2y4h5tj.jpg

Turbo3_zps8qvb2vte.jpg

We wanted to modify the compressor side too, but were unable to due to one of the turbos having a reverse rotation. The turbine wheel is also not very good so it came down to trying to save these turbos with the most gain without tossing them in the trash. Here is our conversation with the turbo builder on that:


In the end we just fixed the turbine clearance issue. The car feels better but it is still not making the power it should. I feel bad because the customer is a great guy but now he is stuck with these turbos that will never get him into the 8's. I drive fast GT-Rs every day here. I know when a car is fast and performing efficiently and a car which doesn't. This car still feels like it has a lot of lag and doesn't pull near as hard as it should. The car is still sitting here... It's done but sitting here.


Definitely a bad idea giving him any type of info to try and fix his junk.
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