119 replies to this topic

[7racer]

Hello DSM_alpha, this is a question for DSCSport, I' ll ask them to answer directly.

I am sure our shocks with the DSCSport control box together do, but that is not your question ;-)

 

Hey Guys!  Good to see you on the forum!

I have the HVT branded shocks with your Tractive DDA and controller.  I LOVE this thing!

 

I also had some questions:

1) can I upgrade my current HVT to the DSC sport controller but also retain the Tractive control box? (I love the ability to change it on the fly while on the track)

2) what's the reasoning (I think I know) for using softer springs with the semi active suspension?  What range have you used on GT-Rs?

[Tom@DSC Sport]

Greetings all,

 

This is Tom Chan from DSC Sport. Its my first post here. :-)  Our marketing team is planning for an official product launch. For now, I am delighted to answer a few questions.

 

 

 

Can you eleaborate on the unit that works with the stock suspension? Does it work with all model years. I have a 2009 that doubles in drag and road racing so I would like to be able to make the suspension softer for drag and stiffer for road course than the stock settings currently do

DSC module works with both Tractive DDA coilovers and OE shocks on the R35 platform. However, we use different mapping because the damping range and reaction time are vastly different between the two shocks. With DSC, users can create their own damping maps, that is within the damping range of the shocks, of course. 

 

 

 

Tom Chan @ DSC / TPC Racing is fantastic with questions.

 

My only question is how tested this is with the GTR. On the Porsche it's dialed in perfectly. TPC has figured out the settings for stock shocks as well as with full Tractive coilovers on the Porsche. With Tractive they have multiple spring rate choices depending on application, and it's all been tested at the track. 

Thank you. :-)

 

DSC hardware and software have been tested thoroughly by us on a long-term basis for the R35. From 2009-2014 we had a pair of R35's as our shop test cars to develop and test DSC hardware, software, and base mapping. The OE R35 suspension control module and the OE Porsche 997-series suspension control module are from the same supplier. We developed DSC for both cars in parallel with relevant development data. After development we marketed DSC to the Porsche crowd full force because we were aligned to that position at the time. Anyway, you can expect the same comfort/performance benefits on the R35 from DSC as on your Porsche. In regard to spring rates for DSC/Tractive packge, we will have a standard spring rate to produce best balance of road comfort and track performance but we will also offer custom spring rate selection for very specific and/or extreme applications just as we do for other brands of cars.

 

We are excited to have DSC/Tractive offerings for the R35!

 

Best Regards,

Tom

[thehelix112]

Welcome Tom!  These suckers are way up there on my mod list.  Thanks for the info.

 

Dave

[Dsm_alpha]

Welcome and thanks tom, is there any difference in the physical valve in a 2009 shock Vs the newer 2012, 2014, etc or is it just a difference in mapping for the various years?

[7racer]

man what a great thread!

 

love when vendors chime in...

 

but answer my question dammit!!!

[Tom@DSC Sport]

Welcome Tom!  These suckers are way up there on my mod list.  Thanks for the info.

 

Dave

Thank you Dave. Its my pleasure.

 

 

Welcome and thanks tom, is there any difference in the physical valve in a 2009 shock Vs the newer 2012, 2014, etc or is it just a difference in mapping for the various years?

Thank you Dsm_alpha. There are different OE part numbers for different production years which some part numbers likely superseded others as OE replacement. As far as we are concern it makes little to no difference for what we are doing and doesn't warrant different base map for each model year. The improvements with DSC is universal across the R35 platform since we're adding/subtracting damping force in a dynamic manner based on CAN-Bus activities. Plus we predict folks are going to tweak the maps for their specific preference and for their existing mods(engine power, big brakes, big aero, tire compound/size, etc.). We think of the DSC as a "Stage 1" product to extract full potential out of the OE shocks in comfort and performance at a reasonable cost. For the ultimate in damping technology and performance Tractive DDA is overshadow the OE shocks by a large margin.

[Dsm_alpha]

Thanks Tom! Can't wait for the release as well as install instructions. This is definitely something I want to try out

[thehelix112]

In addition to being curious about 7racer's questions, I am wondering if there is a clean upgrade path.  That is, can I get the controller now, use it with my OEM shocks, then just get the DDA dampers later at lower cost and have the controller use them.  Or is there additional componentry required beyond the shocks when you move to DDA?

 

Thanks,

 

Dave

[7racer]

The guys at HVT might chime in.  They didn't want to step on anyones toes as they don't want to be a vendor.  But I stated they could contact Tim and do what Martin does for Willal and create an account but just talk tech.

 

Oh and HVT is now called Inertia Lab

Edited by 7racer, 12 April 2016 - 07:03 PM.

[changster]

Actually I take that back. On the Porsche platform the DSC module is the same but it must be re programmed for the Tractive shocks. I'm pretty sure that'd be an easy step given you can download the software and program it yourself.

 

The DSC module is like Cobb but for your shocks instead of your ECU.

[choerizo]

[Tom@DSC Sport]

In addition to being curious about 7racer's questions, I am wondering if there is a clean upgrade path.  That is, can I get the controller now, use it with my OEM shocks, then just get the DDA dampers later at lower cost and have the controller use them.  Or is there additional componentry required beyond the shocks when you move to DDA?

 

Thanks,

 

Dave

 

We offer a number of ways to attain user-tunable dynamic suspension via CAN-Bus interface on the R35 platform. Which way is ideal depends on intended usage, existing compatible component, and of course budget. Below are possible combinations.

 

1) DSC Sport controller to command existing OE shocks.

2) DSC Sport controller to command existing Tractive DDA shocks.***

3) DSC Sport RT or RTx package(which includes DSC Sport controller with RT or RTx shocks by Tractive).

 

If you go with option 1 now and would like to upgrade to option 3 in the future, you would buy the RT or RTx shocks but don't need to buy another DSC controller. Only need to change the base mapping in the controller which the mapping is free.

 

***Denote for option 2: Tractive DDA R35 shocks that were manufactured a few years ago have the same DDV valve as the current RT and RTx offerings from DSC Sport but there are some internal and external differences. Mechanical updates by a trained Tractive technician is required in order to be compatible with DSC Sport controller.

 

 

[ian.r]

what is the difference between the RT and RTx and the HVT (that 7racer has). I didn't realize there were three options.

[thehelix112]

AFAIK: RT and RTx are DSC packages that utilize different Tractive DDA dampers.

HVT is another company like DSC that makes control options for Tractive DDA dampers.

 

A little confusing for sure.

 

Dave

[ian.r]

also iirc Lichfield's and nordring also offer revalved/modified OEM shocks, would they also benefit from the DSC module? would the thresholds be the same or might they provide and even better benefit than the OEM shocks with the controller (if thresholds were increased (how would you find out/know?)) just asking because some have these already and from your current posts I just found out the dsc controller can be used with OEM shocks.

[ian.r]

AFAIK: RT and RTx are DSC packages that utilize different Tractive DDA dampers.
HVT is another company like DSC that makes control options for Tractive DDA dampers.
 
A little confusing for sure.
 
Dave

okay I gotcha on that, but if there are three options, I'd like a clearer path on why I should choose a RT, RTx or HVT are they just based off of packages or do they differ like one is for race track and one for auto-x or does one have a larger threshold for settings, or one is built better than the other (beside the obvious mentioned in his last post about the required upgrade for the HVT to work with the DSC).

[7racer]

AFAIK: RT and RTx are DSC packages that utilize different Tractive DDA dampers.

HVT is another company like DSC that makes control options for Tractive DDA dampers.

 

A little confusing for sure.

 

Dave

 

is that right?  the controller is a tractive but the control valve in the damper is the Tractive one in the HVT no?

The HVT coilover looks like a rebranded tractive....

[thehelix112]

I don't know.  I was just taking my best guess.  Thought HVT just sold a controller option and used Tractive hardware?

 

Dave

[Tractive Suspension]

To confuse or not to confuse ...

 

Dear all, apparently we are creating some confusion so I try to make it objectivily clearer. This confusion is created by the multitude of modification packages on the market on the one hand driven by the cost of a modification package and on the other hand by progress in technology.

 

I try to put all existing modifcation packages in just 4 categories. Possible situations:

 

1. Modified shocks, Stock control box

There are shocks on the market like HVT (these are actually Tractive) or Litchfield or ...  The damping setup has been modified in these shocks to suit more the racing use or more the comfort side or a combination.

Modification is in the damping shim package, damping technology or in complete damper hardware.

Modification can also be the type of spring used, but I do not want to create more confusion.

The control box is stock so it is just using the control algorithm of Nissan, which has to work with the stock shocks and therefore is quite limited in its use.

Technically all these shocks will benefit from a DSC box since this box uses much more input. And yes, since the shocks are modified wrt the stock shocks, it might need some small modifications to the shocks by a trained professional or on the DSC box. I can only speak for the Tractive shocks in use as Tractive, HVT or Aragosta/Topline, modifications are minor.

 

2. Stock shocks, DSC control module

 

3. Modified shocks, non-DSC control module

There are some shocks on the market (as far as I know these are all from us / Tractive) which use a different control box by Tractive (HVT, Aragosta/Topline). Control box is standalone (so not plug and play in the car system), as an integrated 3-axis accelerometer and remote control to change dampign settings while driving.

​There are some different versions on the market: canister yes/no, spring package, branding, ...

It is possible to change these to using a DSC box, allthough the driver than looses the remote control functions. Driver can still select damping mode, but cannot modify during driving e.g a little more damping on the front or on the rear or .... This is not a matter of upgrading to DSCbox, but a matter of taste. For new installations we recommend to start with the DSC box.

Since these shocks have some small differences compared to the shocks used in combination with DSC, it requires a trained professional to to the update, it is not particulary difficult, but it is not recommended to do be done by end-customers..

 

4. Modified shocks, DSC control module

This is the latest in technology develpment. The DSC control module has lots of input from the car available and shock absorbers that have the ability to adapt fas enough. There are two types in shock hardware: RT and RTX. Difference is that the RTX have an addional canister with added oil volume (stability during racing) with manual compression adjusters for finetuning on the track.

 

Hope all this helps to clear some of the confusion.

[Dsm_alpha]

Thanks that helped a lot. 7racer has the HVT option 3 which allows him to make changes on the fly which is nice for us amateurs trying to dial the car in on the fly.

Do you have any cars in the US running option 2 yet? Would love to hear some feedback from users on this. If not I am sure we could get a few folks here with different years (CBA Vs DBA) to try it out.

Edited by Dsm_alpha, 14 April 2016 - 05:24 AM.