119 replies to this topic

[ehyman]

Figured I'd fork off a thread to keep all the info in one place. Here is more info from tractive on features and prcing (linked pdf). If one of the freindly mods would care to move post #23 from the suspenion goodies thread over here, that would be greatly apprecaited (descartesfool's post with all the video links).

Attached Files

•  GTR Packet.pdf   784.06KB   680 downloads

[7racer]

NICE!!!!

[thehelix112]

Ummm awesome! I definitely don't get what the point of a manually adjustable high low speed dampener is when the current can do that too? Does it just change the base curves that the amperage can then modify on the fly?

Also did you get those ones? ;-)

Dave

[thehelix112]

Oh I just saw its high and low for compression. And you said the electronic control has more range / works better on the rebound? Still a little confused.

You should encourage Michael from dsc to come explain how this all works.

Dave

[ehyman]

at lower currents, The electronic valve has a huge effect on rebound and a smaller effect on compression. As the current crosses a certain threhold, it has more of an effect on compression, but not as dramatic as rebound. the H/L compression adjusters are more of a fine tuning and  have 20 clicks with a pretty substandtive range.

 

Yes, I have the RTx.

 

Eric

[Dsm_alpha]

You guys skipped right past the controller that works with the factory shocks! Any more info on this? Would be cool if we could get higher levels of comfort and performance from the stock units

[7racer]

Ummm awesome! I definitely don't get what the point of a manually adjustable high low speed dampener is when the current can do that too? Does it just change the base curves that the amperage can then modify on the fly?

Also did you get those ones? ;-)

Dave

 

my HVT has the same electronic controller, (the DDA)...and also a separate L and H speed compression.  Like Ehyman said, when you do the electronic adjustments it primarily works on rebound and a bit on compression.  It works surprisingly well.

 

Eric,  how did they have you do the initial settings?  Was it like HVT where you use the stock settings then adjust the compression from full soft to where you like it?

[ehyman]

To be clear, the shocks/valve are the same with the HVT solution. the Electronic conrtoller is what is different.  I started with a baseline on the knobs and amperage that was in the same aera of the damping plot as my JRZ's were and then began to adjust to taste.

[thehelix112]

Oh interesting.  I didn't realize that.

 

What made you decide to go with DSC rather than the HVT option?

 

Now I really wanna get to the track with 7racer and go for a ride to see the difference.

 

I am a bit surprised at the extreme differences in spring rates you are both running.  I think 7 said they measured his fronts at ~400lb... and you're running 1400lb.  Ummm...

 

Thanks,

Dave

Edited by thehelix112, 08 April 2016 - 10:38 AM.

[ehyman]

HVT Was still offering the origianal electronics and didn't seem to have had the time availalbe for the level of support/interaction we would need with a not off the shelf setup.

 

I am suprised by the difference in rates and have shared that with 7.  The Shocks have so much damping that they can be setup to compensate for softer springs in transition, but eventually will find themselves on the stops in long steady state. While that setup can work, its not how I roll I intend to use these shocks to get allow me to get away with slighlty softer springs while preserving crips rection to inputs via approrpiatly timed increase in damping and in turn help to effect better weight transfer on thigns like launch and corner exit.

 

Eric

[7racer]

Oh interesting.  I didn't realize that.

 

What made you decide to go with DSC rather than the HVT option?

 

Now I really wanna get to the track with 7racer and go for a ride to see the difference.

 

I am a bit surprised at the extreme differences in spring rates you are both running.  I think 7 said they measured his fronts at ~400lb... and you're running 1400lb.  Ummm...

 

Thanks,

Dave

 

 

I had a great pm exchange with ehyman when he was getting his set up and I was posting about mine.  Is knowledge is >>>mine.  I just went by what the guys at HVT recommended.

Ehyman was super surprised by my rates and I went out to the car to double check and to see if wasn't just sitting on the bump stops at rest!

 

I was worried and even email HVT and decided I liked there reasoning and would run it a bit longer and see how it goes.  I can always increase the rates later.

 

So far its a nice balance for me.  It feels super soft when driving to the track, then hardcore when I want.  Also can soften the rear a TON for drag days.

 

And heck ya, when the car gets back together whenever you want to run it let me know or we can do the meet up on the west coast for the future west coast swing.

Edited by 7racer, 08 April 2016 - 07:27 PM.

[ian.r]

Figured I'd fork off a thread to keep all the info in one place. Here is more info from tractive on features and prcing (linked pdf). If one of the freindly mods would care to move post #23 from the suspenion goodies thread over here, that would be greatly apprecaited (descartesfool's post with all the video links).

I wanted to copy it to keep it in both places but i couldnt find the ability to do that, so the next best thing is to quote and link.

 

http://www.gtrherita...odies/?p=104400

Here are some videos with Mike Levitas explaining things on the Tractive dampers and DSC control software:
 

 
DSC Sport Tuning Software Tutorial

 
Tractive DDA Simulation Tests

 
and another one to keep you entertained
 
Porsche 997 GT3 Tractive DDA Shocks - Features and Assembly

[changster]

I have this for my Porsche. Game changer.

[Tractive Suspension]

Hello

 

This is Tom Glazemakers from Tractive Suspension. Normally we do not interact on internet fora, except to clarify technical matters.

 

We partner with DSC Sport to develop this Nissan GTR Plug&play suspension. DSC sport is expert in the control unit, connection to the CAN and interaction with the shocks. More important Michael Levitas from DSC Sport is using all his racing background to get the set to work like you want. Our expertise is on the one hand to use our DDA valve (very fast and stable proportional solenoid valve) to control the damping range and on the other hand provide you with light shocks, low friction and good stability.  You can use the stock shocks in combination with the DSC Sport module. Our shocks are lighter and a lot faster/stabler. At the same time in most cases we have a higher damping range that can bs used dynamically. We are not yet very known in the carsport industry yet, our roots are in motorbikes & snowmobiles.

 

I noticed some questions on the valve. In attachments below you find some pictures and a sheet on the basic function. Also a movie on how the oil flows in the shock absorber through the main damping piston and through the DDA valve bypass. One can clearly see the valve regulates both directions of oil flow (compression and rebound).

 

 

at lower currents, The electronic valve has a huge effect on rebound and a smaller effect on compression. As the current crosses a certain threhold, it has more of an effect on compression, but not as dramatic as rebound. the H/L compression adjusters are more of a fine tuning and  have 20 clicks with a pretty substandtive range.

 

Yes, I have the RTx.

 

Eric

 

Movie:      Tractive_Animation_DDA_damper.mpg   22.31MB   322 downloads

 

 

 

Attached Images

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[Dsm_alpha]

Thanks for posting tom! Can you eleaborate on the unit that works with the stock suspension? Does it work with all model years. I have a 2009 that doubles in drag and road racing so I would like to be able to make the suspension softer for drag and stiffer for road course than the stock settings currently do

[thehelix112]

Great to have you here Tom! Thanks for the details and information.

Dave

[Tractive Suspension]

Thanks for posting tom! Can you eleaborate on the unit that works with the stock suspension? Does it work with all model years. I have a 2009 that doubles in drag and road racing so I would like to be able to make the suspension softer for drag and stiffer for road course than the stock settings currently do

Hello DSM_alpha, this is a question for DSCSport, I' ll ask them to answer directly.

I am sure our shocks with the DSCSport control box together do, but that is not your question ;-)

[changster]

Tom Chan @ DSC / TPC Racing is fantastic with questions.

 

My only question is how tested this is with the GTR. On the Porsche it's dialed in perfectly. TPC has figured out the settings for stock shocks as well as with full Tractive coilovers on the Porsche. With Tractive they have multiple spring rate choices depending on application, and it's all been tested at the track. 

[thehelix112]

Good question.. They also run them competitively right? So they're getting constant feedback and refinement. Hard to imagine the same constant tweaking goes into the GT-R version.

Dave

[ian.r]

thanks for posting Tom, very informative.

was also wondering about a drag setup for 1000hp-2000hp gtrs. I know Tony @ T1 has a solution he believes in 100% but this new technology really makes me wonder what's possible in such a situation. making the shocks do what is required when its required for the best 60' and put the power to the floor.

its also fascinating what is possible with the road race gtrs too. JRZ (and now possibly Ohlins as of recently) have been the top solution available since 2010 iirc and already 7racer is improving his laptimes.