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2-4 weeks turned into 8 weeks and counting

- - - - - build power whp

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#21
HiBoost

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A few random thoughts:
- Vendors and shops never have anything in stock. NEVER. They expect the customer to pay in full, then they get on with making it.
- Vendors and shops have money issues. They take your money and you may think they are using it for you car but in reality it goes somewhere else. And they try to balance their cash situation with the timing of when they think they need it for your car.
- Nothing is ever on time. NEVER. Always some shit comes up, some reason, etc. They all sound like perfectly legitimate reasons too.
- You need to have a thick wallet, a lot of patience, and another sports car to help with downtime to be in this game.
 
That being said, I can't wait for my new 1600whp setup. :)


I think Isaac was using a bit of hyperbole here but I have to say after modding cars for 20 years and dealing with all levels of markets (from bottom feeder Mustang shops to high end exotic shops) - he's not that far off, on average, in general. AMS says they keep a ton of stuff in stock and I believe them. But they are also a manufacturer so it's not 100% apples to apples. Not every shop makes their own parts. And I'd have to wager that AMS does not require all their dealers to stock all their kits.  And for builds that require custom fab, that's by definition never going to be in stock and always going to be time consuming.  A hand built Ti catback for a BRZ can take as many hours of labor as building an entire A12 using off the shelf parts.  Fab vs install are totally different ballparks.

 

Let's be honest for second.  Most shops suck.  Just a fact.  There are no standards or certifications that exist to open a shop.  It's not like being a doctor or lawyer or accountant or engineer or any of the other professions that society depends on and pays dearly for.  But I think by default people just have some vague assumption that "hey, these guys have shop man, they must be legit, right?"  WRONG.  WRONG AS F&&K.  Wrong 100 times for every right.  Hell, even if, and man that is a BIG if, your shop has competent mechanical/technical staff, that in no way implies or assures that you can run a business.  And if you can't stick to a schedule and keep your finances in order, no amount of tuning and building is going to keep you on the right track.

 

Now is any of this directed at the regulars here on Heritage?  Nope.  I really believe you guys are the cream of the crop and I'm all for you pointing out the ways that Isaac's general complaints don't apply to you.  But more than likely, even the best of you, at one time or another, has fallen into at least one of these pitfalls.  And if that's caused you to change your methods to eliminate that from happening in the future then that is very commendable.  But you also must recognize how many other shops out there do these same things over and over.  To where it can't be explained as an unfortunate series of events and must be labeled as systemic.  


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#22
OuLikeBlueGTRs

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But you also must recognize how many other shops out there do these same things over and over.  To where it can't be explained as an unfortunate series of events and must be labeled as systemic.  

Yeah and honestly writing the initial post I figured there would be two types of answers as I wouldn't think many would come to my defense again given the nature of modders with cars valued at 70k+... Where it is more than likely not their primary vehicle, or their primary source of enjoyment (not to be confused with valuing/babying/taking care of, but the main source of their personal pleasure and entertainment... Where you wanna put 100K miles a year on the car cause you just love it lol), and the notion of not being able to "wait for something great" doesn't make sense doesn't seem feasible, but more childish and immature [which I can admit I garner those qualities]. I would have dropped shipped an engine and fresh trans to avoid this hassle if it wouldn't have caused damaged relations thats how upset I was at the setbacks, because the money was meaningless.

 

 

Or the second reaction which seems to be somewhat prevalent which is this is common place and like you said its systemic in nature judging by both vendor and user experience you just have some shops who give more realistic ETAs vs. others... But the general consensus seems to be you are at the mercy of the manufactures and their personal schedules and or set backs, and its just part of the game... Which is sad because that kind of operating procedure be it at a company or an employee carying themselves in such a manor would almost always result in catastrophe, but in the car world 1-5 times the original estimate is LOLed as suck it up, and welcome to the show.

 

 

I'm also betting guys like AMS, Switzer, T1 etc. they wouldn't have a customer order a package that they knew ahead of time was backlogged a month and 1-2 weeks into the start process go oh by the way orders in but its gonna add another 5 weeks on-top of it... Because at that point its too late to make any adjustments... Like my experience with this DSS fiasco, things were in motion long before I found out about these outrageous timelines and I still don't have an exact handle on the situation as the best eta I got was 1-2 weeks but I'm not sure if thats 1-2 weeks till it begins transit which means add in travel days, then add in install time, etc. which means 1-2 weeks is really 3-4 weeks lol

 

 

Sadly I'm also that one person who even if I whip it out and run an 8 something and am winning all kinds of races, I'll still look back and be upset at the time I lost... Negative nelly. Maybe I'll have some good news between Aug24th-September 5th, but I can't see from the info I've recently gotten how I'd get any break before that :( Sad that it took since June 18th when car was picked up :/ 


Edited by OuLikeBlueGTRs, 13 August 2015 - 02:01 PM.


#23
GTR272

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Im in same boat with frustration...I fell same as you.

 

I bought a 2014 gtr in may and car had 4k miles on it full bolt on with cams,rods and pistons...  WELL I flew to New Mexico and picked it up... Drove it home and babied it the whole way cause I wanted to get it back and all fluids changed and retuned here where I live.

 

Long story short I drove 16 hours..got home slept woke up and took it to the tuners to do all fluids and then tune. They call me and say my oil is full of shaving..WTF.. 1 of the turbos let go and put debris thru complete motor... On his paper work his shop dropped the motor cause 1 of the turbos was over boosting... So had to do a full rebuild and buy cams cause there were stock ones in it.  $20k later

 

Had car in my possession 22 hours and havnt seen it for 3 months now and still waiting.



#24
Tim

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That sucks dude,not the kinda first post we like to hear.


 

 


#25
alexo515

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FBO with built motor and cams on stock turbos?  You know they were beating the shit out of it.  Built the motor for a reason lol.


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#26
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FBO with built motor and cams on stock turbos?  You know they were beating the shit out of it.  Built the motor for a reason lol.

 

It has Full Blown Turbos on it. 



#27
jima

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It has Full Blown Turbos on it. 

 

Those turbos are know to fail, seen at least 4 sets take a poop.

 

Sorry it happen to you. 


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#28
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Those turbos are know to fail, seen at least 4 sets take a poop.

 

Sorry it happen to you. 

WTF... garret just rebuilt them.... uggh



#29
ian.r

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that is terrible... did they ever fix those turbos Jim? or do they still sell them like that?

#30
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I think Isaac was using a bit of hyperbole here but I have to say after modding cars for 20 years and dealing with all levels of markets (from bottom feeder Mustang shops to high end exotic shops) - he's not that far off, on average, in general.

 

Yes, this exactly. I know I used the word NEVER, but of course I'm just making a point. 

 

Go build an Alpha 12 and you'll see. Oh oops, Bryant crank no stock. Oh, intake manifold no stock. Oh, DSS Axles is a 3 week wait. Oh, those nice cams no stock. etc etc. 

I'm not trying to come off like I expect things to be like trying to go out and buy an iPhone. I'm just making a point in that you are dealing with small businesses with limited resources and capacity. Expect delays. Expect one off's to cost a lot. But it in the end, it really is FUN. The power is UNREAL. You just have to understand and set expectations that are MUCH WORSE expectations than what shops and vendors tell you. Then in your mind you'll be happy when shops beat those low expectations. 

 

You think a salesperson at a shop is going to tell you, hey man sorry but that Bryant crank takes 3 months to get.  No, they will say hey the wait for the crank could be 6 weeks, but that's perfect we can do all the other stuff first and put that crank in at the end.  

One recent example for me...  I order an XXXXX brand dry sump kit with mechanical pump. The guy says YES IT'S IN STOCK. I pay cash. That was like 2+ months ago. Oh look, it just shipped this week. They shouldn't blatantly lie, no, but I just laugh it off because I just expect it now. Think about it... how many people order mechanical fuel pumps and dry sump kits for the R35? 3 in this entire world? It's only for freaks like me. Are they really going to keep 10 of these in stock? Also, they said the dry sump + mechanical pump will fit without problems to the AC, PS, and stock location turbo kit. BUT, in my mind I'm already thinking there will be problems and that there will have to be one off stuff that is needed to make it work. 


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- 4.2 liter billet block <? big boy kit> coming.

 

13180940063_33e81c30d6_z.jpg


#31
Arkmae

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ive been waiting since march for my car. been waiting 1 month just for the engine builder to start building the motor. you guys have it so easy in USA. Come to australia and be prepared to wait and wait a long time indeed.


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#32
tgkb278

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Yes, this exactly. I know I used the word NEVER, but of course I'm just making a point.

Go build an Alpha 12 and you'll see. Oh oops, Bryant crank no stock. Oh, intake manifold no stock. Oh, DSS Axles is a 3 week wait. Oh, those nice cams no stock. etc etc.

I'm not trying to come off like I expect things to be like trying to go out and buy an iPhone. I'm just making a point in that you are dealing with small businesses with limited resources and capacity. Expect delays. Expect one off's to cost a lot. But it in the end, it really is FUN. The power is UNREAL. You just have to understand and set expectations that are MUCH WORSE expectations than what shops and vendors tell you. Then in your mind you'll be happy when shops beat those low expectations.

You think a salesperson at a shop is going to tell you, hey man sorry but that Bryant crank takes 3 months to get. No, they will say hey the wait for the crank could be 6 weeks, but that's perfect we can do all the other stuff first and put that crank in at the end.

One recent example for me... I order an XXXXX brand dry sump kit with mechanical pump. The guy says YES IT'S IN STOCK. I pay cash. That was like 2+ months ago. Oh look, it just shipped this week. They shouldn't blatantly lie, no, but I just laugh it off because I just expect it now. Think about it... how many people order mechanical fuel pumps and dry sump kits for the R35? 3 in this entire world? It's only for freaks like me. Are they really going to keep 10 of these in stock? Also, they said the dry sump + mechanical pump will fit without problems to the AC, PS, and stock location turbo kit. BUT, in my mind I'm already thinking there will be problems and that there will have to be one off stuff that is needed to make it work.


Man speaks the truth. But the process is what made the end results so special to you. If everyone can buy the same Alpha 12 off the shelf, it wouldn't be the same.

The most common phrase used in the car community is that: your car is an extension of yourself. And everyone of us out there is different.

Also patience is a virtue!
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#33
OMG RB 26

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Quoting build timelines is a bear of a job, and even more so a balancing act.

 

One problem is a lot of consumers don't want to hear the truth. Some shops will promise an unrealistic build time because they want to capture your business. Other places (like T1 mentioned) try to add in a buffer at the risk of losing the bid. 

 

Naturally you're going to want to go with the shop with the least build time, given both places have equal credibility and pricing

 

This is unfortunate as a consumer, because you can never really know the truth

 

I could certainly see a 2-3 week build if all of the parts were sitting on the shelf at the time you bring the car in. 


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#34
OuLikeBlueGTRs

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Quoting build timelines is a bear of a job, and even more so a balancing act.

 

One problem is a lot of consumers don't want to hear the truth. Some shops will promise an unrealistic build time because they want to capture your business. Other places (like T1 mentioned) try to add in a buffer at the risk of losing the bid. 

 

Naturally you're going to want to go with the shop with the least build time, given both places have equal credibility and pricing

 

This is unfortunate as a consumer, because you can never really know the truth

 

I could certainly see a 2-3 week build if all of the parts were sitting on the shelf at the time you bring the car in. 

 

Yeah I mean and that's the thing knowing me and the type of consumer you couldn't pay me to park my car for 2 months not if Eric got on here gave me 10k cash and a free Alpha 12 setup. I am just not built to not have fun with the things I love lol... I know that sounds like madness to most, and most would step over their own grandmother for an A12 kit, but not having it isn't worth a wait... And this is where I think you're right not enough shops say yes 2-4 weeks... BUT BUT BUT there may be a few things that could make it as bad as 10 weeks are you sure you're ok with that? 



#35
jima

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WTF... garret just rebuilt them.... uggh

 

I would not put them on if I where you, just sell them and get Alpha 9s, SiR USMs etc. 



#36
jima

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that is terrible... did they ever fix those turbos Jim? or do they still sell them like that?

 

As far as I know no, is not really the turbos fault is whoever does the machine work for them that doesn't do a very good job at it. 



#37
icarus

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I would not put them on if I where you, just sell them and get Alpha 9s, SiR USMs etc.


You can sell those turbos over at GTRLife, don't try posting those here, this community is too informed. (lol)
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#38
OuLikeBlueGTRs

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WTF... garret just rebuilt them.... uggh

 

 

Sell them and buy my HKS GT800 kit :) I promise you it'll be top notch <3 



#39
Buschur Racing

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LOL, shops or vendors will never tell you oh yes expect lots of delays and heartaches. This is the game unfortunately, and everyone has to learn the hard way. All build threads look rosy but I've realized a lot of it BS. Hard to look past the smoke and mirrors.  

 

Modding GTR's is NOT for the faint of heart. I've already accepted it, and you have to as well if you want to be in the mod game.

 

A few random thoughts:

- Vendors and shops never have anything in stock. NEVER. They expect the customer to pay in full, then they get on with making it.

- Vendors and shops have money issues. They take your money and you may think they are using it for you car but in reality it goes somewhere else. And they try to balance their cash situation with the timing of when they think they need it for your car.

- Nothing is ever on time. NEVER. Always some shit comes up, some reason, etc. They all sound like perfectly legitimate reasons too.

- You need to have a thick wallet, a lot of patience, and another sports car to help with downtime to be in this game.

 

That being said, I can't wait for my new 1600whp setup. :)

 

That's not true, I warn every single GTR owner that comes here, the cars are a long process, if you are in a rush go elsewhere.

 

We also build nearly everything in house so we have most if not all of what we need here for each build.  As for financials, I have no 30 day accounts with everyone, COD coming in and COD going out.  

 

Sounds like a lot of shops have issues.


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#40
OuLikeBlueGTRs

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That's not true, I warn every single GTR owner that comes here, the cars are a long process, if you are in a rush go elsewhere.

 

We also build nearly everything in house so we have most if not all of what we need here for each build.  As for financials, I have no 30 day accounts with everyone, COD coming in and COD going out.  

 

Sounds like a lot of shops have issues.

 

 

lol as blunt as you are in battalion and elsewhere. I fully believe if i came to you and said I need 1200whp in x amount of time or I need to go elsewhere you'd give it to me straight.


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