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Dave's slow, stealthy, Black Edition, HPDE-oriented build

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#1
thehelix112

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Hey guys,

Figured I should start a build thread rather than keep updating my intro thread. (http://www.gtrherita...new-time-owner/).

So my build will be at a snail's pace compared to the likes of icarus and 7racer, but that's ok, I need that time to keep doing the slow-but-valuable driver-mod.

The plans for the car are to change small, cheap things that offer the biggest bang for their buck in terms of track times and reliability, all while keeping it looking factory to all but the most expert GT-R owner.

So, initial things before I go out:
- clear bra to protect the paint.
- Harrys lap timer with Bluetooth GPS and OBD so I can start collecting data. I wanna do this up front so I can chart my progress and learnings.
- fire extinguisher (thanks dave@gotboost by way of icarus)
- factory track alignment.
- replace front rotors with RB.

Those are almost done, gotta sort rotors and install the extinguisher.

Hopefully with that setup I can drive as hard as Shawn, and warrant upgrading to a harness. I'll be using the Scroth ASM harness, with a factory-style mount setup. I plan on putting eyelet bolts in the front seat's rear mounts and attaching the lap belts there, while the shoulder belts will go to the rear seat's lower mounts. I'm not sure on the attachments there, but I have a few ideas to minimize the intrusiveness.

Next steps, after wearing out the factory tyres, will be to upgrade to a 10.5 square setup using the rear wheels on the front. A pretty good deal for just 2 rear wheels (inc TPMS) came up yesterday ($700 for both) so I'm going to pick these up tomorrow. They will get shod in the factory rear-sized BFG Rivals or Hankook RS3s and maybe eventually the Nitto NT01s.

Depending on how those tyres respond to the factory front camber (I assume I'll be roasting the outsides), I'll get the whiteline camber bushes, and the top speed front upper control arms, to both tuck the tyres in and improve clearance, and to use the tyre better. Hopefully. If, with the factory alignment it's cooking the inside then it's back to the drawing board.

The reason for both bushes and arms is that they both change the front end geometry, though in different ways. The bushes move the inboard arm mount more inboard, while the top speed arms shorten the swing arm. I will be plotting this in a geometry program to see what it does to the camber curves. Hopefully with the adjustability I can tune out any nastiness.

If the rears show they're getting cooked on the insides too them some rear camber adjustment will be needed there too I guess.

With that setup I imagine I will need a HKS transmission cooler, and possibly also a AMS engine oil cooler, but we'll see.

Up next would be a set of adjustable sway bars all round.

I'm not sure what the next steps after that would be, maybe just more driving practise. Or lightness mods?

I will be taking pics as I go along (very slowly), and here is one as she sits now, factory.

IMG_20141231_165731.jpg

Hope to see you guys soon at a track day!

Dave

Edited by thehelix112, 17 January 2015 - 06:29 PM.

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#2
elf_cruiser

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Sounds like a good list of mods, though I think the trans cooler will work its way to the top of the list sooner than you think.
We'll be running at Chuckwalla in 3 weeks, planning to camp Friday night if you're interested. PM me for details...
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2010 GT-R - Matte Gray, AP/Carbotech, BSE trans cooler, BSE tune on ECUTek, H&R sways, AMSOIL, NASA-AZ TT2 and occasional DD
1976 FJ-40 Rock Buggy - tube chassis, LQ4, 700R4, NP205, Rockwells, F&R hydraulic steering, Fox, Ballistic, lots of 4130, 7068, and AR400

2001 Ford Excursion - V10, DD and occasional tow rig

facebook.com/DangerousEnterprises

Do want someday - Radical, 599 GTB w/FHP, 430 Scud, Superlite Coupe, FF Type 65 Coupe


#3
Tim

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Nice Plan of Attack Dave


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#4
icarus

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less is more :-). Nissan got lots of things right on the GT-R.

Consider adding race pads and Castrol SRF fluid flush to your short-term list.

Alignment preferences will vary by driver and by your tire choice. Running a semi-slick like the R888 and Nitto NT01 my tire wear has been incredibly even with factory suspension.

MPSS less so, surprisingly, long term wear suggests more camber needed both F and R for track and less camber for street. Basically, the outer edges wear at the track and the inner edges wear on the street.

Here is an NT01 after 6 track days. No doubt square setup and rotation is helping even put the wear!

b6dde564d6690b9429bbf249016191b1.jpg
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2014 NISSAN GT-R
Racing Brake - HKS - GotBoost Performance - AMS

#5
icarus

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Regarding sway bars, I buy into the camp that sway bars are primarily used to adjust front/rear balance, that is, to add or reduce over or understeer. Try running your square setup first, and work your way to running VDC off. Only then can you make a fair determination if sways will help, IMO.
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2014 NISSAN GT-R
Racing Brake - HKS - GotBoost Performance - AMS

#6
7racer

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Regarding sway bars, I buy into the camp that sway bars are primarily used to adjust front/rear balance, that is, to add or reduce over or understeer. Try running your square setup first, and work your way to running VDC off. Only then can you make a fair determination if sways will help, IMO.

 

Icarus, what alignment settings are you running again?


In7anity!!


#7
thehelix112

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Wow that's some nice wear on the nt01! I'm very surprised it's that even with factory alignment. Doesn't bode well for my hope that the extra negative camber will work with the tyres and let me tuck them under the front fenders. I guess we'll see.

Race pads and fluid, yes, I imagine I'll need that! I'm petrified of doing brake fluid on a car with abs. Can you do it normally? Hose+bottle on the line and pump the brakes, starting at the furthest away (passenger rear)?

Maybe I need to go download the ESM and see what it has to say. But I just have this horrible fear of getting air in the line and the abs/vdc getting all pissed off.

Trans cooler I imagine will end up being required by the summer in socal.

Re sway bars, I agree entirely. Also will definitely do that, square setup, normal mode, then up to R mode, then up to vdc off eventually. Then sway bars.

Obviously it helps control roll, and it's simpler than changing the springs and then having to worry about revalving the dampers etc. So we'll see.

Pretty fucking excited to get started!

Dave

#8
elf_cruiser

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Get one of these:
Motive Products 0117 Ford/Import 3-Tab Power Bleeder Black Label https://www.amazon.c...d_ou.Uub0PJG9GF

It makes flushing the brakes by yourself a piece of cake! Just hook it up to the brake res and pump to about 15psi. Then get some 1/4" ID vacuum hose and a bottle to capture the fluid coming out of each bleeder screw. Keep going til all calipers are empty then refill the system the same way. Be caferul though because the GT-R res is pretty small and you need to disconnect the Motiv to refill the res several times.

Cheers!
  • icarus and thehelix112 like this

2010 GT-R - Matte Gray, AP/Carbotech, BSE trans cooler, BSE tune on ECUTek, H&R sways, AMSOIL, NASA-AZ TT2 and occasional DD
1976 FJ-40 Rock Buggy - tube chassis, LQ4, 700R4, NP205, Rockwells, F&R hydraulic steering, Fox, Ballistic, lots of 4130, 7068, and AR400

2001 Ford Excursion - V10, DD and occasional tow rig

facebook.com/DangerousEnterprises

Do want someday - Radical, 599 GTB w/FHP, 430 Scud, Superlite Coupe, FF Type 65 Coupe


#9
thehelix112

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Hang on, pump it up to 15psi with air?! Then again through with new fluid? Or am I misunderstanding?

#10
elf_cruiser

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That's correct. The air pressure will push all the fluid out of the whole system. Way faster than pumping the brake pedal a gazillion times, and you don't need a second person to help.
Then on the refill, the air pressure pushes the new fluid into the system.

They're actually designed so that you can fill the canister with new fluid and it will suck the new fluid out and push it into the brake system. But, brake fluid eventually corrodes the pump mechanism and ruins it, not to mention it just gets messy. That's why I use it simply as an air pump. One of these days I'll get a regulator for my air compressor and just use that instead...
  • thehelix112 likes this

2010 GT-R - Matte Gray, AP/Carbotech, BSE trans cooler, BSE tune on ECUTek, H&R sways, AMSOIL, NASA-AZ TT2 and occasional DD
1976 FJ-40 Rock Buggy - tube chassis, LQ4, 700R4, NP205, Rockwells, F&R hydraulic steering, Fox, Ballistic, lots of 4130, 7068, and AR400

2001 Ford Excursion - V10, DD and occasional tow rig

facebook.com/DangerousEnterprises

Do want someday - Radical, 599 GTB w/FHP, 430 Scud, Superlite Coupe, FF Type 65 Coupe


#11
icarus

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Differing opinion here. SRF is compatible with the OEM fluid, so I would just fill the pressure bleeder with SRF and push it on through, I do not condone ever pushing air into the system.
  • thehelix112 likes this
2014 NISSAN GT-R
Racing Brake - HKS - GotBoost Performance - AMS

#12
thehelix112

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Yeah air in the system scares the bejesus out of me, though I'm sure it works fine. I reckon I'll try keeping it full of the new fluid first.

Thanks guys!

#13
7racer

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SIGN UP FOR COTA!


In7anity!!


#14
elf_cruiser

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Whichever method you use, the Motiv makes it a lot easier. I've had 5 different brake fluids in my car and always flushed the system completely empty to get as much of the old fluid out as possible before filling with a new brand. For now I'm totally sold on Amsoil's 600 deg fluid.
  • thehelix112 likes this

2010 GT-R - Matte Gray, AP/Carbotech, BSE trans cooler, BSE tune on ECUTek, H&R sways, AMSOIL, NASA-AZ TT2 and occasional DD
1976 FJ-40 Rock Buggy - tube chassis, LQ4, 700R4, NP205, Rockwells, F&R hydraulic steering, Fox, Ballistic, lots of 4130, 7068, and AR400

2001 Ford Excursion - V10, DD and occasional tow rig

facebook.com/DangerousEnterprises

Do want someday - Radical, 599 GTB w/FHP, 430 Scud, Superlite Coupe, FF Type 65 Coupe


#15
thehelix112

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Yeah I've used elf htx 115 in the past, unsure about compatibility with OEM, so might just go castrol this time. Unless the amsoil is cheaper?

Dave

#16
changster

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Cool man... good luck!


- 4.4 liter Alpha 12 built by TSM (R.I.P)
- 4.1 liter ER/ETS 6466 built myself with the help of everyone.

- 4.2 liter billet block <? big boy kit> coming.

 

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#17
descartesfool

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less is more :-). Nissan got lots of things right on the GT-R.

Consider adding race pads and Castrol SRF fluid flush to your short-term list.

Alignment preferences will vary by driver and by your tire choice. Running a semi-slick like the R888 and Nitto NT01 my tire wear has been incredibly even with factory suspension.

MPSS less so, surprisingly, long term wear suggests more camber needed both F and R for track and less camber for street. Basically, the outer edges wear at the track and the inner edges wear on the street.

Here is an NT01 after 6 track days. No doubt square setup and rotation is helping even put the wear!
 

 

I have the exact same experience. With the Nitto NT-01's, you get very even wear at the track using the factory alignment. No need for extra negative camber. With the MPSS's, the factory alignment does not have enough negative camber and the outside of the tires wears out first, particularly the fronts, while on the street, the inside wears out first, just like the OEM run-flats. So I find it's just cheaper to use the Nittos on track and not have premature wear of the MPSS's outside tread. I actually corded my MPSS fronts at the track last time, but just on the extreme outside.


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#18
shawnhayes

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That's correct. The air pressure will push all the fluid out of the whole system. Way faster than pumping the brake pedal a gazillion times, and you don't need a second person to help.
Then on the refill, the air pressure pushes the new fluid into the system.

They're actually designed so that you can fill the canister with new fluid and it will suck the new fluid out and push it into the brake system. But, brake fluid eventually corrodes the pump mechanism and ruins it, not to mention it just gets messy. That's why I use it simply as an air pump. One of these days I'll get a regulator for my air compressor and just use that instead...

 

 

Differing opinion here. SRF is compatible with the OEM fluid, so I would just fill the pressure bleeder with SRF and push it on through, I do not condone ever pushing air into the system.

 

Elf has apparently been getting away with this for years....  None of the rest of us do it with air.  He gets away with it just fine...no idea why.

 

That being said, I just gravity bleed my system.  The fluid comes out at an acceptably high rate to bleed/flush the system by just opening the bleed valves and attaching a small hose to it and letting it bleed into a bleeder bottle that keeps air from entering backwards.

 

Shawn



#19
shawnhayes

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Sounds like a good list of mods, though I think the trans cooler will work its way to the top of the list sooner than you think.
 

 

Strongly strongly strongly emphasize this.

 

Despite never reaching the "red" zone on my transmission, the old guard advised me to get this many years ago.

 

I didn't listen.  One transmission replacement later, and I listened to what they had to say.

 

Shawn


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#20
elf_cruiser

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I had no idea it wasn't common practice to empty a brake system. How can it be bad when literally every car has to be filled with brake fluid on the assembly line. They don't install the calipers full of fluid or the lines or the ABS controller, etc so at some point the system is full of air and then it's full of fluid. I don't see a brake system being different than any other hydraulic system, there's no harm in flushing it dry so long as you get all the air out upon refilling the system.
  • Enshiu and Gtrbillet like this

2010 GT-R - Matte Gray, AP/Carbotech, BSE trans cooler, BSE tune on ECUTek, H&R sways, AMSOIL, NASA-AZ TT2 and occasional DD
1976 FJ-40 Rock Buggy - tube chassis, LQ4, 700R4, NP205, Rockwells, F&R hydraulic steering, Fox, Ballistic, lots of 4130, 7068, and AR400

2001 Ford Excursion - V10, DD and occasional tow rig

facebook.com/DangerousEnterprises

Do want someday - Radical, 599 GTB w/FHP, 430 Scud, Superlite Coupe, FF Type 65 Coupe





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