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Green filters looking good in oil analysis

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79 replies to this topic

#1
HiBoost

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I have been ordering oil analyses each time I change the oil and always using Mobil 1 0w-40. Blackstone reported that these motors tend to start high on silicon from various sealers used during assembly but that over time the counts should continue to drop. I talked with Shawn about my last report and we had some concerns that the still-high numbers (I was at 14k miles already) might also be extra dirt coming in through the aftermarket intakes. But now that I have done another change we can see the level has dropped almost in half so I think we can safely say the Green filters (from Gotboost Performance of course!) are doing their job and the numbers were in fact due to OEM sealers. I'm also happy that they've found no alcohol or water contamination from me running E85 full-time (I asked them to specifically check for that which is what they address in the comments section).

Would love to hear any of your thoughts though.

oil-report.png
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-Jeff

#2
changster

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Is alcohol/water contamination really bad, if it were happening?  I'm gonna run E85 mostly full time from now on but I have no idea if the oil would get contaminated.  


- 4.4 liter Alpha 12 built by TSM (R.I.P)
- 4.1 liter ER/ETS 6466 built myself with the help of everyone.

- 4.2 liter billet block <? big boy kit> coming.

 

13180940063_33e81c30d6_z.jpg


#3
7racer

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wow, thanks for getting this analysis! are you running a catch can at all?

In7anity!!


#4
HiBoost

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No catch can. 100% stock PCV system.

Isaac, you'd have to talk with your builder about what is normal for your power level. The more power you make the more likely blow-by will occur. The more that happens the more the fuel mixture mixes in to your crankcase and thus your oil. The bottom line is neither water nor ethanol nor gas is something you want in your oil in any significant quantities. I've seen modified EVOs and STIs that have catch cans that could double as little moonshine outfits. In a single tank of E85 there is literally 12+ ounces of pure alcohol in there! But so far, in multiple oil changes and approx 5000 miles on my car, there have been no problems. That's good news for all the FBO + E85 guys!
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-Jeff

#5
changster

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No catch can. 100% stock PCV system.

Isaac, you'd have to talk with your builder about what is normal for your power level. The more power you make the more likely blow-by will occur. The more that happens the more the fuel mixture mixes in to your crankcase and thus your oil. The bottom line is neither water nor ethanol nor gas is something you want in your oil in any significant quantities. I've seen modified EVOs and STIs that have catch cans that could double as little moonshine outfits. In a single tank of E85 there is literally 12+ ounces of pure alcohol in there! But so far, in multiple oil changes and approx 5000 miles on my car, there have been no problems. That's good news for all the FBO + E85 guys!

 

Cool thanks for that.  My car does have blow by as I do need to put some more oil in it once in awhile.  I've been changing my oil like every 800 miles just to be super conservative.   I'd be curious to test the oil like you did so I know how often I really need to change the oil.


- 4.4 liter Alpha 12 built by TSM (R.I.P)
- 4.1 liter ER/ETS 6466 built myself with the help of everyone.

- 4.2 liter billet block <? big boy kit> coming.

 

13180940063_33e81c30d6_z.jpg


#6
shawnhayes

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Looking good Hiboost.

 

Being hypercritical, though, it seems all GT-R's either have too much copper for my tastes or too much lead in the analyses.  The PAO's like Mobil-1 seem to have too much copper, and the double ester molybdenum formulas have too much lead.  But these aren't important.

 

Addressing oil contamination - you ABSOLUTELY don't want any fuel in your oil.  It isn't so much a problem, but a SYMPTOM.  Fuel ends up in the oil mostly with blowby which can be a result of poor ring sealing.  Also engines with poor fuel management can put so much crap in the combustion chamber that it ends up on the walls and manages to find its way past the rings into the crankcase.

 

Early GT-R's ended up with a lot of fuel in the oil because of poor ring sealing (due to starting out at the factory with synthetic oil from the start), and a lot of track use, which dumps a whole lot of fuel into the combustion chamber.

 

I strongly encourage any owner with not stock power, and not stock oil strategy to send their oil off for analysis.  It can be quite eye opening.

 

Shawn



#7
HiBoost

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Early GT-R's ended up with a lot of fuel in the oil because of poor ring sealing (due to starting out at the factory with synthetic oil from the start), and a lot of track use, which dumps a whole lot of fuel into the combustion chamber.


Are you saying this process has changed? I.e. that newer GTRs are not started for the first time on the same Mobil 1 they are delivered with?
-Jeff

#8
OMG RB 26

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As long as the silicone continues to trend down you're good. You just have to watch for spikes. Usually when you see a jump in silicone that means you've developed a boost leak (remember under vacuum conditions the engine sucks things in - its not so terrible driving through your suburb but imagine driving on a long dusty road) or you've managed to get some crud in it while you had the cap/filter off.

 

I know that sounds dumb saying "you knocked dirt into the engine" but you wouldn't believe some of the stuff I see field techs do  when they're servicing mining equipment. I've watched a lube tech drop the oil gun right into the dirt, and stick it back into the fill hole. The silicone PPM was up a ton on that machine at the next sampling.

 

Fuel dilution is not good, but also having a little is to be expected. We like to see less than 4% dilution and if we see more we tell the techs to keep an eye on things

 

Going to oil consumption - we have a rule of thumb we follow here (it varies by engine model) but usually we say a ratio of 240:1 / fuel:oil. (Caution this is not a GTR specific ratio) meaning for every 240L of fuel you burn, you should be burning less than 1L of oil. (remember big ass diesel engines take several gallons of oil if not a ton more) If you're adding more than 1L of oil, then you've got a ring/piston/block issue


Andy - West Peoria Performance

Affordable GTR Modification, Fabrication, & Tuning

1990 300ZX w/RB26 - 770rwhp - 10.2 @ 143
2009 GTR - Self Built 3.8, Elite Plus, E85 - 8.8@160


#9
shawnhayes

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Are you saying this process has changed? I.e. that newer GTRs are not started for the first time on the same Mobil 1 they are delivered with?

 

No one checks the first two oil changes anymore.  Several of us did, and the results were :yikes:

 

Also, the heavy track users bought the 2009 and 2010's and most have not upgraded (well, except YOU icarus - you know who you are).

 

But amongst the community very few check oil analyses in the first 10,000 miles and heavy track.  So, it was a concern to the early GT-R's.  Checking later seems to be the thing to do, rather than panic because of the first two oil changes.

 

Shawn



#10
danielTRLK

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hate to break it to you but your "analysis" is far from accurate, you have some pretty serious issues taking place with your engine. Flashpoint is useless for today's modern fuels. your engine wrist pins are taking a big ass beating.......it may look good from far, but it's far from good lol



#11
HiBoost

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hate to break it to you but your "analysis" is far from accurate, you have some pretty serious issues taking place with your engine. Flashpoint is useless for today's modern fuels. your engine wrist pins are taking a big ass beating.......it may look good from far, but it's far from good lol

 

Welcome to the site.  Odd first post, I'll give you that.  It is now 2.5 years after I made this post and the oil reports (done every 6 months) continue to improve and the engine is running flawlessly.  Care to expand on your omnipotent view of my wrist pins' certain demise?


-Jeff

#12
danielTRLK

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yes, thanks for the welcome!!! I'm getting ready to go guns blazing on everyone in the GT-R industry. I'm going to educate everyone who THINKS they know anything about oil analysis, combustion dynamics and fuel. Blackstone has this reputation amongst people in the automotive industry as the god of oil, and I'm going to take them head on........they've DESTROYED needlessly thousands of people's engines because they don't know what they're doing. I'll send you a full blow report if you send me all your blackstone reports, then we'll let everyone on this forum decide what they think after........

 

your reports can continue to improve, improve and improve like the guy on clublexus, after I read his reports, and broke him the news on how much damage he put on his engine from their reports, he confirmed what I was saying to be true. I don't lie and won't play no games. 



#13
shawnhayes

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yes, thanks for the welcome!!! I'm getting ready to go guns blazing on everyone in the GT-R industry. I'm going to educate everyone who THINKS they know anything about oil analysis, combustion dynamics and fuel. Blackstone has this reputation amongst people in the automotive industry as the god of oil, and I'm going to take them head on........they've DESTROYED needlessly thousands of people's engines because they don't know what they're doing. I'll send you a full blow report if you send me all your blackstone reports, then we'll let everyone on this forum decide what they think after........

 

your reports can continue to improve, improve and improve like the guy on clublexus, after I read his reports, and broke him the news on how much damage he put on his engine from their reports, he confirmed what I was saying to be true. I don't lie and won't play no games. 

geek-humor.jpg



#14
danielTRLK

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I didn't think I put a joke in my response? good photo though lol



#15
HiBoost

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Daniel, are you really the best brand ambassador that Tribologik has?  Surely you must understand that saying your competitor's reporting is garbage and supplying evidence as rock solid as "check clublexus" (I thought you said you didn't have a joke in your response) comes off as VERY spammy and unprofessional.  Furthermore, your "conclusions" are complete shit.  Even if the Blackstone reports were generated by a drunken monkey that has no bearing on the condition of my or anyone else's motor.  We don't keep cranking up the boost until we see something scary in an oil report, we tune the car safely and then use a report as one of many confirmations of this safety.  I know that my AFRs and knock sensor readings are safe from looking at data logs, I know my plugs look good and my motor isn't consuming oil between changes, etc.  So no matter what is on my oil report how can you make such ridiculous claims as "your engine wrist pins are taking a big ass beating" without knowing a damn thing about my motor?

 

I'm supposed to believe that Blackstone is a joke and you guys are the scientific dream team when this is the type of introduction you put forward?  I gotta say, this is why bring your kid to work day is ill-advised.  Your dad is going to be super pissed when he gets the libel call from Blackstone's attorneys.  But I'm sure you can back up that "DESTROYED needlessly thousands of people's engines because they don't know what they're doing" claim in court, right?


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#16
ian.r

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I can believe this but would like more info regardless. I'm always skeptical about services and lubrication

#17
danielTRLK

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 it's me doing this on my time because YOU are missing out and I care to help you guys understand true analysis and not some cookie cutter junk that is staining this industry......

...You know nothing about this game, just based on your response. Blackstone is not competition to us. They are no where near any competition. We are a different kind of player, we have ZERO retail following. My competitor are labs like Polaris, ALS, Analysts and CAT. I am here to disprove what they are doing, which is worse? lack of professionalism with good product or bad product and a level of professionalism? 

 

Your analysis has everything to do with your engine, which if you allow me to, I will prove to you and show. 

 

You're so confident in everything you have said, why are you so hesitant to send me all of your reports? or publish them all on this forum and await for me to send back an analysis? I came out on this forum with no personal information, yet you have now outed me and where I work, which quite frankly I wasn't trying to do. I don't need 1000 additional calls at my office asking questions because now everyone wants to know how me and my guys do what we do. I would ask politely, you edit your post. If I disagreed with you or someone on a forum, the last thing I would do is publish their personal information on a forum. I would also ask, if I did want to acknowledge where I work, that you would allow me to do it on my terms. But I guess that option was taken away from me. oh well.......

 

Please Publish your reports so I can get this over with.


Edited by danielTRLK, 01 March 2017 - 12:59 PM.


#18
thehelix112

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Daniel, are you really the best brand ambassador that Tribologik has? Surely you must understand that saying your competitor's reporting is garbage and supplying evidence as rock solid as "check clublexus" (I thought you said you didn't have a joke in your response) comes off as VERY spammy and unprofessional. Furthermore, your "conclusions" are complete shit. Even if the Blackstone reports were generated by a drunken monkey that has no bearing on the condition of my or anyone else's motor. We don't keep cranking up the boost until we see something scary in an oil report, we tune the car safely and then use a report as one of many confirmations of this safety. I know that my AFRs and knock sensor readings are safe from looking at data logs, I know my plugs look good and my motor isn't consuming oil between changes, etc. So no matter what is on my oil report how can you make such ridiculous claims as "your engine wrist pins are taking a big ass beating" without knowing a damn thing about my motor?

I'm supposed to believe that Blackstone is a joke and you guys are the scientific dream team when this is the type of introduction you put forward? I gotta say, this is why bring your kid to work day is ill-advised. Your dad is going to be super pissed when he gets the libel call from Blackstone's attorneys. But I'm sure you can back up that "DESTROYED needlessly thousands of people's engines because they don't know what they're doing" claim in court, right?


Snap.

#19
HiBoost

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Let me get this straight, you were trying to keep who you are and where you work undisclosed and yet you picked a username that combines your name and an abbreviation for your company?  danielTRLK isn't the most stealthy way to hide that your name is Daniel and you work for Tribologik, is it?  Your post came off much more along the lines of laying the groundwork to promote your company than it did of trying to hide your identity.

 

And please explain how sending you my reports does/proves anything?  You'd have to have my oil samples and run your own reports and then use those to prove that Blackstone's numbers are incorrect.  If, as you say, Blackstone doesn't know what they are doing and their numbers are bogus, then how can you possibly analyze the reports in isolation any further?  Garbage in, garbage out should be a phrase understood by anyone in the data analysis business.  

 

Are you asserting that if a Blackstone test indicates I have 1 ppm of lead in my sample that the real number could be 0 or 500 and this is just completely worthless/random data?  Because if you can PROVE that, then we have something to talk about.  Otherwise, outside of those types of black and white numbers, I don't depend on anything from an oil report anyway.  I'm not asking these guys how much ignition timing they think I can get away with.  They aren't offering "advice", this is supposed to be a factual report, period.


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-Jeff

#20
danielTRLK

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No one could have guessed that abbreviation, without being told, but I will give it to you, probably should have done something else. 

 

I have to ask, if you think I'm full of shit, why are you still hiding these reports? No, I can run my own reports based on the data they collected. You ever see photographers edit shitty photos to make them better? I'll use their data to show you and everyone else interested what I got. I don't get it, it's like I'm challenging you to let me prove to you that something is wrong and rather than give me the chance, you respond with answers that show how little you know about this field.

 

I guess maybe I should clarify. I will use their numbers and show how off their interpretation is, how using their numbers i'll show how their data is skewed, and lastly how using their numbers, I can help you. Oh, it's free of charge FYI.






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