Jump to content

Welcome to Nissan GT-R Heritage
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!
Photo

Discussion on clutch capacities and touch points

- - - - -

  • Please log in to reply
18 replies to this topic

#1
ian.r

ian.r

    Stage 4 Member

  • OEM Member
  • 6,587 posts
  • Joined 19-December 12
  • Locationnear Chicago

as the title says, we need a Discussion on clutch capacities and touch points. The most information i can get is try each setting to see what works best but NOTHING more on why and what is happening and any pro's and con's to running what with what hardware.

 

 

 

Clutch Capacity adjustment, which controls the hydraulic pressure applied to the clutch plates.  +/-7 levels of adjustment to control clutch clamping force. used  to eliminate clutch slip during full throttle upshifts, mainly in higher power GT-R's

 

negatives is that the seals will fail? from what i understand dodson seals will not fail due to this? please explain more if you know more.

 

Touch Point Adjustment is used to adjust the amount of clutch drag while stationary. It will eliminate excessive creep or set clutch drag for the perfect launch responsiveness between +/- 7

 

any negitives? when should each number be used? any drawback to different settings?

 

Would anyone like to describe clutch gear learning and gear position tests?

 

 

Some quotes i have found from google search on the subject.

 

CC (Clutch Capacity), is basically the line pressure or how hard the clutch grips (-7 is low clutch grip, +7 is max clutch grip)


TP (Touch Point), is basically when the clutch is engaged.

 

 

if you get no clutch slip with 0 0 0 0, I would stick with it.  If you are making a lot of Torque, like with 20psi of boost and E85, then usually you need to bump the CC up to +1 or +2 to keep it from slipping.

 

Set the Clutch Capacity's up if your trans is slipping.  You can set up to +7, I would use the lowest setting that you get no slip.  If your setting is to low, that's how your burn clutches.  As well as your tune.  If your tune is off, then you will burn up clutches as well.  

With a ProMax on a stock turbo car, Keep in mind a Promax does not like to be slipped, like with LC4/LC5.  Especially if the tune makes the clutch slip. 

Do a clutch learn with the Cobb.

 

I think this is some what related... i found another comment about transmission logging via ecutek... it appears you can use the ecutek trans logging even if you have cobb or syvecs. and here is one reason why... http://www.gtrherita...cm-only/?p=2844

I am a little late to this but hands down the ecutek can offer more. It is to a point that it will be a requirement for one of my dealers to have just for the logging ability.  I have tried to explain to cobb how badly we need to be able to see sensors and to date I have not heard of any eta on this happening. 

 

Hours and hours of diagnosing can be taken care of with a simple 30 second log !!!  It will also become very easy to see if a clutch is going to be hurt while launching.  If we could have them implement a warning light or limp in mode if things are not right ( x psi at X rpm while in launch mode ) it would save thousands of dollars worth of damaged clutch parts. 

 

I will be doing a lot more testing on my car now that I have it ( thanks Bill ) 

 

 

 

 

 

R35 GTR Clutch Settings.JPG



#2
ian.r

ian.r

    Stage 4 Member

  • OEM Member
  • 6,587 posts
  • Joined 19-December 12
  • Locationnear Chicago

here is from Ecutek website
 
 
http://www.ecutek.co.../TCM-Tools.aspx

GTR-Tools-TCM-Tool.png

How it works
Clutch Gear Learning - This process will initiate the TCM ECU to self calibrate the clutch pressure, clutch touch points along with pump and solenoid duty learning.

Clutch Touch Points - These touch points are the actual engagement point of the clutch plates to connect the engine crankshaft drive to the input shaft of the gearbox.

Clutch Pressure - The Clutch pressures are applied for each clutch: Clutch A (even gears 2-4-6) and clutch B (odd gears 1-3-5). Raising the clutch pressure values will give a more positive pull away and gear change, reducing these values will encourage clutch slip along with a smoother pull away with smooth undetectable gear changes. On high power vehicles these pressures should be increased to minimise torque slip on gear changes.

Read Clutch Temps – This will display the maximum clutch temps that have been achieved.

Read Oil Temp History – This will show the Oil Temp history including frequency of oil temp.

Read Warning History – This will display any protection thresholds that have been triggered.

Clear Warning History – This will clear the TCM warning history.

Reset Clutch Adjustment – These will clear and reset all current Clutch Capacity or Touchpoints.



#3
Tim

Tim

    FYI Gators eat the bones

  • OEM Member
  • 9,465 posts
  • Joined 06-December 12
  • LocationBlue water and White Sandy Beaches

I'll see if i can get Shep to chime in


post-273-0-31146100-1438786356.jpg

#4
Shep

Shep

    Stage 2.5 Member

  • Vendors
  • 295 posts
  • Joined 10-December 12
  • LocationOhio

I don't have a lot of time at the moment but raising cc is not the reason seals blow.  Many of the trannies we see come in with blown seals were on bone stock cars.   There is a design problem with the 09-11 seals and we are addressing that by having seals made out of a better material AND a different design.  Basically sending a seal to China or wherever to have it copied will result in a seal that is worse than the factory seal.

 

In general I am not a fan of raising cc unless you need to.  Thankfully EcuTek came along and we can actually have real data to make changes for a reason. 


  • Polivoks and Enshiu like this

#5
ian.r

ian.r

    Stage 4 Member

  • OEM Member
  • 6,587 posts
  • Joined 19-December 12
  • Locationnear Chicago
shep your information is so invaluable! that explains alot.

can owners that have ecutek use it like you do to to diag what's going on?
basically if it can help a gtr owner i want to make sure they have a guide to help them. but i understand that as a buiesness you can't give away trade secrets (which is not what im asking). i know your time is limited too.

#6
Shep

Shep

    Stage 2.5 Member

  • Vendors
  • 295 posts
  • Joined 10-December 12
  • LocationOhio

I did get to do a little bit of logging today.  This was on a stage 3 trans.  Going from 0 to +3 on cc was about a 4% increase in pressure or about 10 psi.  I will try again at +6 and report back.

 

After that I will log a stock car and do the same tests. I will then need to learn how to make fancy charts to show that a few of the theories running around are totally false :)


  • Polivoks and ian.r like this

#7
Polivoks

Polivoks

    Stage 4 Member

  • OEM Member
  • 1,406 posts
  • Joined 05-December 12
Interesting data John, thanks for sharing!

#8
Tim

Tim

    FYI Gators eat the bones

  • OEM Member
  • 9,465 posts
  • Joined 06-December 12
  • LocationBlue water and White Sandy Beaches

I switched over to EcuTek TCM yesterday.I put about 100 miles on the car last night.I can tell you the car drives way smoother!!!!

Part throttle is even better,I can't exspress how happy i am right now!


  • ian.r, Bill@SiR and Se7enGTR like this
post-273-0-31146100-1438786356.jpg

#9
Bill@SiR

Bill@SiR

    Stage 4 Member

  • Vendors
  • 476 posts
  • Joined 21-December 12
  • LocationMiami FL

I did get to do a little bit of logging today.  This was on a stage 3 trans.  Going from 0 to +3 on cc was about a 4% increase in pressure or about 10 psi.  I will try again at +6 and report back.

 

After that I will log a stock car and do the same tests. I will then need to learn how to make fancy charts to show that a few of the theories running around are totally false :)

 

If you need help I am good with excel ;-)  Can make those fancy charts with real data.

 

I switched over to EcuTek TCM yesterday.I put about 100 miles on the car last night.I can tell you the car drives way smoother!!!!

Part throttle is even better,I can't exspress how happy i am right now!

 

I think I figured out why ;-)  

 

Glad your happy!



#10
dave@gotboostperformance

dave@gotboostperformance

    Stage 4 Member

  • Vendors
  • 414 posts
  • Joined 23-December 12

Exciting stuff. I know you've wanted this for awhile John.


2009 Titanium w/ GBP 900 Package


got-boost-2.gif


#11
ian.r

ian.r

    Stage 4 Member

  • OEM Member
  • 6,587 posts
  • Joined 19-December 12
  • Locationnear Chicago
any updates and fancy charts shep or bill?

#12
Shep

Shep

    Stage 2.5 Member

  • Vendors
  • 295 posts
  • Joined 10-December 12
  • LocationOhio

Just collecting data more than anything now.  I need results from a stock car which is hard to find around here haha.



#13
HiBoost

HiBoost

    Stage 3.9 Member

  • OEM Member
  • 3,909 posts
  • Joined 12-February 13
  • LocationOmaha

Just collecting data more than anything now.  I need results from a stock car which is hard to find around here haha.

 

What do you need?  I've got a bone stock 2010 and the full EcuTek package... I'll log anything you want.  Let me know what roms you want me to run and what tests. 


  • Polivoks likes this
-Jeff

#14
dinny

dinny

    Stock

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 25 posts
  • Joined 08-November 15
I find it hard to believe just by loading ecutec as a operating system it has made a difference to the engine...

I switched over to EcuTek TCM yesterday.I put about 100 miles on the car last night.I can tell you the car drives way smoother!!!!
Part throttle is even better,I can't exspress how happy i am right now!



#15
droptopp

droptopp

    Stage 4 Member

  • Member
  • 1,676 posts
  • Joined 16-February 14

I find it hard to believe just by loading ecutec as a operating system it has made a difference to the engine...


Why wouldn’t it ?

BTW - this thread is 5 1/2 years old too - may have had some updates since then ;)

Edited by droptopp, 15 September 2018 - 09:27 AM.

GTX3582R built and tuned by STM, AMS 4.1, Omega billet crank, Alpha Cams, STM DP, MP, 4 STM Titanium custom exhaust, STM Race FMIC 22x18x4.5, full 3" piping, ID 2000, Sheptrans OneK drop gears, DS axles, E85, Advan GT 10/12 285/315 R888 / MT ET 18x10/12 TE37 Saga MT ET SS 275/245.
Heartbreaker Mustang 1186 E70 low boost. Dynojet 1350 +/- 60-130 3.5 seconds. 100-150 3.4 seconds.

#16
GT-ARR

GT-ARR

    Stock

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 17 posts
  • Joined 10-May 19
Apparently a dealership says adjusting trans setting from default specs will void warranty. Anyone knows anything about that?

#17
HeeRow

HeeRow

    Stock

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 4 posts
  • Joined 08-April 18
Not sure. But the dealer GTR tech asked me if I wanted to change it. We could drive around to see if I would like the settings. I didn’t do it, but it seems like an option to me if I wanted to do it.

#18
haul s

haul s

    Stage 4 Member

  • Member
  • 521 posts
  • Joined 18-October 14
  • LocationAtlanta, GA

Apparently a dealership says adjusting trans setting from default specs will void warranty. Anyone knows anything about that?

Yes. Find another, competent GTR certified dealership. Because TP adjustments for track prep are documented right in the factory manual.

Better yet, get yourself Cobb or ecutek, and DIY.

Edited by haul s, 17 May 2019 - 07:35 PM.

  • 7racer and droptopp like this

2014 Nissan GT-R Black Edition - haulin' ass!
sigpic71174_3.gif
---
2004 Audi B6 S4 Sedan MT6 - SOLD - OG ass hauler
Brilliant Red, Black/Silver


#19
GT-R Marine

GT-R Marine

    Stock

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 3 posts
  • Joined 26-December 15
I had a dealership say that to me one time. I never went back after that.
  • droptopp likes this




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users