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Caliper differences on R35 GT-R's

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19 replies to this topic

#1
shawnhayes

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With other's help, we have discovered some important differences in GT-R calipers. Credit to Warren from Racing Brake and Evolution VI. Details to follow as I bring them here: Credit to sources where credit is due: EvoluitionVI here, and Warren from RacingBrake. Heavily plagiarized and shamelessly copied including source. Shawn

Edited by shawnhayes, 21 September 2013 - 07:48 AM.


#2
shawnhayes

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Does anyone know there are three different FRONT calipers for GTR:

41001-JF20D (12/2008 - 12/2010)
41001-KB50A (12/2010 - 11/2011)
41001-KJ10A ( 11/2011 to present)

I believe most of you think only two calipers; One for 09-11 (380mm rotor), and one for 12+ (390mm rotor), and the difference is the height of caliper due to different rotor size all else (offset) is the same.

The other query I have is why the rotor thickness was changed from 34mm to a thinner one (32.6mm) in 2012 model - This never happens to any car make/model that I have known (newer model with thinner rotor).

I suspect the earlier (09-11) brake set up might have clearance issue (not enough clearance between rotor and caliper), so OE reduces the rotor thickness to alleviate this issue, but at the same time increase the rotor sizes to 390mm to make up the thermal capacity. However larger rotor also means more flex to both caliper & rotor - especially for tracking in high speed sharp turns, so I am not sure if this change could actually improve the interference issue they tried to correct unless the new calipers have wider clearance.

It seems to me that the interference between the rotor and calipers is contributing to the rotor premature failure (cracking) due to the excessive heat.

Anyone with insight to share your knowledge and experience will be helpful to the community.

Thanks
Edited by Davin, 05 August 2013 - 05:38 PM.

From Warren of RacingBrake.

Edited by Davin for forbidden vendor activity

Shawn



#3
shawnhayes

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Credit to Evolution VI



I'm not sure I understand. The DBA caliper is only different to the CBA caliper in that the built in spacer is 5mm thicker.

With the DBA caliper, you'd need a 7.5mm spacer to fit to a 405mm rotor, and you'd need a 12.5mm spacer with the CBA caliper, but the pads would contact the rotor in the exact same spot.

Prototype of this concept is the Stillen CCM's, DBA's need 5mm spacer, CBA's need 10. Other one is AP's replacement rotor for DBA's - CBA cars can use it, and Stillen supplies a 5mm spacer.

Other than the extra 5mm on the mounting boss, the calipers are physically dimensionally the same.

Shawn


No,they are def different.

Not sure how to describe it with my limited english knowledge,but i try my best.

If you measure the opening of the DBA caliper,its like 1cm more on the DBA cars compared to a CBA car.

I will upload a picture i just made....
Edited by EvolutionVI, 05 September 2013 - 06:02 AM.

#4
shawnhayes

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Credit to Evolution VI Not the best pictures as i just snapped them,but clearly to see that there is a 1cm difference in the CBA/DBA calipers(due to the angle of the pictures it looks more like 5-6mm,but that doesnt matter....difference is there) Alex PS: To go from 380mm to 400mm it needs a 13mm spacer,to have enough clearance on the outer edges..... For 390mm to 396mm it needs a 5mm spacer,for 390mm to 400mm it needs a 6,5mm spacer Attached Thumbnails y5ysaqyg.jpgrytasume.jpg Edited by EvolutionVI, 05 September 2013 - 06:21 AM.

Edited by shawnhayes, 21 September 2013 - 07:31 AM.


#5
shawnhayes

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Again credit to Evolution VI

shawnhayes, on 05 September 2013 - 07:29 AM, said:


Good work, man.

I just measured my Stillen spacer. Stillen had implied at some point that the CBA spacer was 10mm and the DBA spacer was 5mm. Having just measured it, it is indeed 13mm.

Our prior comparisons were from photos for the CBA and DBA calipers. We knew that the mounting bosses were different by 5mm. Had no idea they were longer.

Thanks for the excellent sharing.

Are the piston sizes the same or not?

Shawn

Opening is 315mm CBA vs 323mm on the DBA,measured on the same spot of the calipers.

Pistonsizes are the same 26/30/32mm for both calipers.

The difference of the opening is the reason you will get problems installing the 400mm or bigger discs in the CBA but having no problem installing them in the DBA....maybe this clears up.



#6
shawnhayes

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Credit to Warren from RacingBrake Another evidence to support my observation is the non-standard bolts used in 2012 GTR calipers: gebasezy.jpg As you can see the non-standard (modified) bolt has a shank diameter only 11mm which allows movement (slack) inside the caliper mounting holes (for offset adjustment), I was informed by some GTR owners/shops that factory instructions in installing the calipers is to press the brake pedal first before tightening the mounting bolts which is also something I have never heard of, because if all components are made correctly they should line up as they are intended w/o this type of correction at installation. This bolt variation has caught my attention to check further on other year's calipers. I saw a thread promoting ZR1 carbon rotors (36mm) with stock GTR calipers (37mm groove), unless the calipers groove is widen you can expect constant interference on tracks which is not a good idea to run. Edited by Davin, 05 August 2013 - 05:40 PM. Warren-RB

Edited by shawnhayes, 21 September 2013 - 07:46 AM.


#7
ian.r

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anyone talk to Warren? im interested in hearing about his caliper development(s).


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#8
shawnhayes

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anyone talk toWarren? im interested in hearing about his caliper development(s).


Not yet. I'm thinking about calling him tomorrow. He should post here, without fear from being edited.

Shawn

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#9
7racer

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anyone talk to Warren? im interested in hearing about his caliper development(s).

 

I remember his post about the development of the forged caliper ETA this summer.  Would love to give those a try!


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#10
sjj31

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Not yet. I'm thinking about calling him tomorrow. He should post here, without fear from being edited.

Shawn


Has anyone tried the 13 calipers on a 10? I have a buddy who upgraded to Alcon and thinking of buying his 13 calipers ... Any adjustment needed?
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#11
7racer

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sjj31, it should work, but I am curious...I had a bitch of a time fitting the WGP CC ZR1 kit to my 09 calipers.  Wondering if the later models would fit better.  Also, if Warren fabbed up his forged ones to fit later models.


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#12
shawnhayes

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sjj31, it should work, but I am curious...I had a bitch of a time fitting the WGP CC ZR1 kit to my 09 calipers. Wondering if the later models would fit better. Also, if Warren fabbed up his forged ones to fit later models.


Based on the bigger caliper pocket, the fit may be better. Although, my CBA calipers had no trouble with the Stillen 400mm rotors.

Shawn

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#13
Johnnypbmx

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I have the top secret bbk to go from my cba 380mm to 400mm. I have all the spacers but no bolts- do you know what size/ length bolts ill need to order front/rear? Thank you!

Based on the bigger caliper pocket, the fit may be better. Although, my CBA calipers had no trouble with the Stillen 400mm rotors.

Shawn



#14
shawnhayes

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I have the top secret bbk to go from my cba 380mm to 400mm. I have all the spacers but no bolts- do you know what size/ length bolts ill need to order front/rear? Thank you!
 

 

I'm trying to locate Sean Morris.  The rears will be the same that Stillen specced for the CBA for their CCM kit.  the front stock ones are long enough.  Other person to ask will be Warren at Racing Brake.  I think you need 10mm longer rear 10mm bolts.  The stocks will PROBABLY hold, but Stillen wanted longer ones.

 

Shawn


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#15
Johnnypbmx

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Thank you! I did contact RB to find out what to order but they sent me a link for a full kit including spacers. I installed initially with stock bolts and seemed iffy- i may measure the entire hole then order 10mm less. Thought i could take the easy way out haha. Would you happen to know the stock bolt length and thread pattern? As always- much appreciated!

I'm trying to locate Sean Morris. The rears will be the same that Stillen specced for the CBA for their CCM kit. the front stock ones are long enough. Other person to ask will be Warren at Racing Brake. I think you need 10mm longer rear 10mm bolts. The stocks will PROBABLY hold, but Stillen wanted longer ones.

Shawn



#16
thehelix112

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I've got the bolts Shawn sent me that I think are supposed to work with spacers? Shawn? I can measure em and get a photo tomorrow morning if it'll help. I'm a bum and they're not on the car yet. Close though!

Dave

#17
shawnhayes

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I've got the bolts Shawn sent me that I think are supposed to work with spacers? Shawn? I can measure em and get a photo tomorrow morning if it'll help. I'm a bum and they're not on the car yet. Close though!

Dave

 

Dave,

 

Those work with the RB Calipers.  The spacers for the rear brakes for the CCM's from Stillen/AP require longer bolts than the stockers - but not much.  Just a little.

 

I think the bolts you have are VERY close to the right length.  But I'm not 100% certain.  Do you know the diameter of the ZR-1 rotors?

 

Shawn


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#18
Johnnypbmx

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Ive had good luck with this company for metric fasteners on price/quick shipping- just need to find out size/length- itd save me from pulling my current bolts out and trip to hardware store!

The allen heads are 12mm x 1.5- just need length
And not sure what the center bolt is for sizing.

https://www.belmetri...-heads-c-6_339/

Edited by Johnnypbmx, 25 March 2020 - 11:25 PM.

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#19
elf_cruiser

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Front Caliper bolts:
Upper - M12 x 1.5 122mm long
Lower - M12 x 1.5 101mm long
Middle - M8 x ? 116mm long

Rear bolts are the same as the lower fronts. You can find all of them at mcmaster.com aside from the upper fronts. 122mm is longer than any normal supplier will make. :(
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#20
Johnnypbmx

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Thank you! This helps a lot! Ill pull the middle bolts soon and post thread pitch

Since I have a cba and going 380mm to 400mm i may be able to just buy dba brake bolts as they may be longer than 122mm? Then just use front bolts for the rear- from nissan the bolts are <$5 each.

Front Caliper bolts:
Upper - M12 x 1.5 122mm long
Lower - M12 x 1.5 101mm long
Middle - M8 x ? 116mm long

Rear bolts are the same as the lower fronts. You can find all of them at mcmaster.com aside from the upper fronts. 122mm is longer than any normal supplier will make. :(


Edited by Johnnypbmx, 29 March 2020 - 09:18 PM.





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